Pheonix Engineering Road Runner

@pbnaudio

You wrote: "The motors on these are substantially larger than any of the motors typically used on any belt drive http://www.hurst-motors.com/aabdirectdrive.html this link takes you to the first choice of belt drive manufactures."  

I'm surprised to read that you said that.  The physics of belt drives, with the motor revolving much faster than the platter, permits very small (and very quiet) motors to turn a 30+ pound platter.  In fact, the Hurst motors are among the larger motors used for belt drives.  Excellent sounding belt-drive TTs have been built with clock motors.  The original Sondek motor, for ex., was a tiny one.

As long as you're dragging this out, you wrote earlier: "The reason to put the Tachometers in the turntables to display their accuracy. If you got it flaunt it. :-)"  Are you for real?  You're selling a tach to DD TT owners that does exactly what their TT already does.  So you want them to invite their friends in to watch the tach?  Really??

Nor can I (imagine a return to BD).
Nor do I hear any “veil” coloration or “hunting”, once the plinth is made proper for the device. This is with serviced and calibrated DD tables at quality level DP80 and up. (SP10 Mk3, Kenwood L07D, Victor TT101.)

If you pick up a DD at a garage sale or from your uncle’s closet in unknown condition don’t assume that because it “works” you are getting its best performance. And then don’t think you know how they “all” sound, please.

 I apologize to anyone if I sound vitriolic. But one more thing about belt drive aficionados does irk me. That is, they have no problem claiming they can hear the servomechanism of a direct drive turntable hunting, yet most are eager to acquire a speed controller for their a belt drive turntables, a device that  itself relies upon a feedback mechanism to maintain constant speed. It seems to me you can’t have it both ways. And indeed I have found that such add on devices almost invariably make belt and idler drive turntables sound a lot better.

@lewm

The inertia of a 20 pound platter smooths out the feed back effects.

They sound better with the various controllers because they depend for speed upon the 50 or 60Hz cycle from the electric company. That cycle can now be made more precise with these add ons. Also they drop the voltage (after start-up) which further weakens the already small motors. Weaker motors means less effect upon the heavy turning platter.

The fact that you cannot hear the distortion does not mean it’s not there, just that you cannot hear it. I’d suppose Fremer has a better ear than you do . . . and better associated equipment.

lewm

... If you pick up a DD at a garage sale or from your uncle’s closet in unknown condition don’t assume that because it “works” you are getting its best performance. And then don’t think you know how they “all” sound, please.

Just to be clear, I bought my DP-80 brand new from a Denon dealer, and installed it in a VPI two-arm base. (That was before VPI made its own turntables.) The DP-80 was a very, very good table and I enjoyed it for years. But I think the very best belt drives sound better. Much better.

But one more thing about belt drive aficionados does irk me. That is, they have no problem claiming they can hear the servomechanism of a direct drive turntable hunting, yet most are eager to acquire a speed controller for their a belt drive turntables, a device that  itself relies upon a feedback mechanism to maintain constant speed.

Sorry, you're mistaken. Most speed controllers, such as the VPI SDS and ADS and many others, are not servo controlled. The Phoenix Falcon/Roadrunner product was an exception.