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The Border Patrol DAC - Maybe linearity in a DAC is bad ... Spitballing

Hi Everyone,
I've been thinking about a few things related to DAC's and how they behave and how we hear. Also thinking about a couple of audiophile comparisons I've heard and how we interpret what we hear.

Let's talk about this simple measurement called linearity.

In a DAC what we mean is that as the magnitude changes the output changes the same amount. That is, if the signal says "3 dB softer" you want to get exactly 3 dB softer output on the jacks.

And with modern, top tier DACs this is usually really good until around -90 dB where noise becomes the limiting factor.

For a long time I felt that a DAC which allowed me to hear the decay of a note, so that it fades instead of stops suddenly was the mark of a truly excellent sounding DAC.

I'm wondering if what I'm actually hearing is compression? Lack of linearity.

The reason I bring this up is that I was reading a long article about the complexities of reviewing a DAC from Border Patrol. One of the main failings, from measurements, is that it is really not linear at all. Sounds don't get softer fast enough. And ... low and behold, Herb Reichert actually makes many comments about how much more he can hear with this DAC than with others.

I'm going to link to a critique of the "scandal" so you all can get a better look:


https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/01/06/border-patrol-dac-revisited-audio-fur/


Also, take a look at the linearity charts in the original review. Honestly, awful. Not up to what we expect in state of the art DACs today, but ....


https://www.stereophile.com/content/borderpatrol-digital-analogue-converter-se-measurements

What do you all think? Do we need a compression feature in DACs so we can hear more details? That would make more sense to me than a lot of the current fad in having multiple filter types.

Best,
E

erik_squires
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
6,996 posts
 
I had a very similar Spectral experience (Dr. Keith Johnson controlled the room) with them  driving Avalons at CES in the late 1990s. The sound quality was threadbare,  mechanical and artificial in my opinion.  About 30 minutes after this demonstration I heard in another room the exact same Avalon model speakers driven by Jeff Rowland electronics. Substantially better, natural and very emotionally involving relative to the Spectral components. Much more instrumental realism.  Those Avalons really revealed the stark sonic differences between the two brands. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Spectral components had the superior measurements on a test bench. Hearing both there was no comparison.
Charles 
mzkmxcv
558 posts
 
At the end of the day, you hear what you hear, and it’s your money.

And no, I’m not having my own definition of cold. Cold is the opposite of warm, warm sound is rolled off highs (like ELAC speakers, Andrew Jones himself states this is intentional and also described it as warm). If you don’t mean that, then don’t use the incorrect descriptive word.

And also, no, even if I made my own recordings, and compared to different DACs, if they weren’t compared to with the restrictions I stated, even I wouldn’t be able to accurately state which is closer to the original. Our brains are very stupid in this regard, there’s not a human alive which can accurately compare two audio products while knowing and seeing what the products are. 
 
I would like any explanation anyone can conjour up on how the Benchmark could remove the church walls in the recording. It’s like saying one speaker wire has a wider soundstage than another, it’s simply an impossible acchievmant as the two have nothing in common. It’s like me saying using fine china over everyday ceramic plates makes the food taste better (metal spoons over plastic spoons do in fact alter taste though).
erik_squires OP
5,268 posts
 
I agree, that ears matter.

I do want to kind of emphasize that when I posted this thread I was using "linearity" as a very specific measure.

I don't mean to rehash all things about all measurements.

But, what if specifically, with DACs we prefer some compression at the bottom? Why not?

What if this is in fact correcting a problem in the ADC end?
kalali's avatar
kalali
1,645 posts
 
I haven’t heard the BP or BM DACs but I’m also having trouble accepting that the BM DAC is actually "removing" musical content from the original recording. Someone used the video analogy earlier and my guess is that the difference has to do with the level of "contrast" presented by these two DACs, perhaps just like the view of the same image presented by different monitors. I suspect the ear/brain just focuses on different parts of the same content depending on the relative contrast within the content. My 2 cents.
erik_squires OP
5,268 posts
 
@kalali

Don't you think these effects could be explained by compression?

Best,
E


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