2. analog
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The Science of Vinyl/Analog Setups

It seems to me that there is too little scientific, objective evidence for why vinyl/analog setups sound the way they do. When I see discussions on tables, cartridges, tonearms and even phono cables, physical attributes are discussed; things like isolation, material, geometry, etc. and rarely are things discussed like wow, rumble, resonance, compliance, etc. Why is this? Why aren’t vinyl/analog setups discussed in terms of physical measurements very often?

Seems to me like that would increase the customer base. I know several “objectivists” that won’t accept any of your claims unless you have measurements and blind tests. If there were measurements that correlated to what you hear, I think more people would be interested in vinyl/analog setups. 

I know vinyl/analog setups are often system-dependent but there are still many generalizations that can be made.
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tablejockey
743 posts
 
Anyone that concerned with specs, should stick to digital.

In the end, it's simply a subjective decision. Playing a record either sounds more convincing or not. 

Best specs on white paper is important, but how can that ensure everyone will agree it sounds "good?"
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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
celander
I know several “objectivists” that won’t accept any of your claims unless you have measurements and blind tests.
Who cares?

I’m glad you put "objectivisits" in quotes. Real objectivists conduct their own measurement and listening tests and they don’t automatically dismiss the experience of others. The people you’re describing are really "measurementalists." They worship the tests conducted by others and believe numbers, charts and graphs are sufficient to describe the sound of a component.
stevecham
3,298 posts
 
"...rarely are things discussed like wow, rumble, resonance, compliance, etc. Why is this? Why aren’t vinyl/analog setups discussed in terms of physical measurements very often?"

I disagree. These features and specifications are very often discussed here in these threads. I would bet that most, if not all, vinyl enthisiasts here pay very close attention to the measurable aspects for cartridges, arms and turntables when making not only decisions as to what to buy, but what to listen to before purchasing.

Do you have a specific question about any piece of equipment you're interested in?
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celander OP
1,036 posts
 
@elizabeth Thanks for your post—a wealth of info in that link.

@tablejockey True enough.

@cleeds Indeed, you are correct. It’s about things other than being objective. Measurements are used often to justify the objectivist argument. But therein lies the trap—measurements often have subjective presumptions tied into the mix.

@stevecham I have no Q’s about specific items.

As the astute will recognize, I created this thread to funnel similar posts away from the “The Science of Cables” thread in the Cables sub-forum.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-science-of-cables



stevecham
3,298 posts
 
The Science of Cables’ thread has, unsurprisingly and perhaps somewhat sadly, taken on a life of its own. The topic of cables touches very sensitive nerves in this industry/hobby and it seems most have a strong opinion about it. My hope is that in the vinyl realm, other than comparing it endlessly to digital sources (yawn), there will be civility and education. I’m here to share experience, knowledge and wisdom; I've been playing records for the past 55 years.
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