Bryston 4B3 vs Mac MC462 vs Pass Labs X250.8, OR... GRYPHON Diablo 300?

nyev

I enjoyed your follow up review. The most important factor is repair/service after the sale. Does The Gryphon have an authorized repair representative here in the U.S.A. ?

Happy Listening!

Gryphon does. I once talked to their distributor, inquiring about possible 220 to 110 volts conversion. The lady said they would not work on any not North America voltage units and that I would have to ship it to Denmark. She also said they would not install optional phono in not 110 volts units. I was just thinking, hypothetically, of maybe buying used unit from Europe or Asia at some point. Not only Diablo 300, older integrateds and separates as well. Gryphon separates is a dream unless I decide to go all tube. Perhaps in steps, first Gryphon integrated with tube phono, then Gryphon separates with tube phono and then all tube. But each of these steps would already be excellent by itself. 

I've never heard a Gryphon product.   I'm very curious as to how the Diablo 300 compares to a Pass X250.8/X350.8 + excellent preamp like the XP-20/XP-22,  Sim 740P, or say AR REF5SE.   A great sounding and powerful integrated is very appealing; that being said for the price a very solid amp/pre pair + interconnect can be put together on the used market that would also sound awesome.     Is the Gryphon still in another league from these North American products?

I've seen used 250.8s for ~$5500USD, 350.8s for ~$8000, XP-20s for ~ $5000, XP-22s for ~$7000, 740Ps for ~$5000, and AR REF5SE for ~$6000.   There is a Diablo 300 on this site now for ~$12K.   Throw in $800 to $1K for an excellent interconnect (like a Shunyata Anaconda for instance) and you can mix and match a pretty awesome stack for a little less or a little more than the integrated.

As much as I like my 250.8, I still think adding the 740P to my system made one of the largest improvements compared to all of my various electronic upgrades over the many years.   That is where I wonder if the biggest advantage to going with separates over these amazing but pricey integrateds is the ability to tailor the preamp section to your amp of choice.

Obviously using the MSRPs of these separates compared to the Diablo or other similar products is not fair and one can see where the integrateds provide excellent value.  But, if the integrateds are not available at similar discounts used, then maybe the value proposition shifts...     Of course, none of this holds if the Diablo is another level above these separates in sound quality.

Cheers

Yeah, interesting. My guess is that Diablo 300 will win in all cases except maybe where for some reason you want active preamp, Diablo's preamp section is passive.
I myself would not compare Diablo 300 to used Pass separates, I would compare it to used Lamm hybrid separates.

From my experience in terms of what I have access to test in my area (which is admittedly limited), Diablo 300 beats all separates at a similar price point. This includes McIntosh C2600/MC452, Bryston 4B3 with various preamps, and the Simaudio 600 integrated. I’ve tested other combinations in-store that were on my long-list before the shortlist gear mentioned above which I tested in-home. I also tried using the Simaudio 600i as a preamp to get a sense of what the 740p preamp might sound like. None of these configurations came even close to the Gryphon integrated in any particular area. Except, maybe, the Simaudio in terms of soundstage and detail, but performance was similar only in that one area. To me the Simaudio sounded dry, a bit analytical, had no drive and not a lot of bass, and didn’t engage me in a musical sense at all. Higher power Simaudio amplifiers would be better, but the overall sonic presentation didn’t appeal to me and sounded lifeless. When I tested all of this gear, I wanted to like them, and even with the Gryphon I wasn’t sure on my first audition. Now that I’ve gone through this process, I’m confident that overall the Gryphon is not even comparable to other options at its price or lower; it was so much more capable and makes it very obvious it is in a different class of gear.
Also, the consensus from many others say you would need to spend double the cost of the Diablo 300 to beat its performance. This includes Whitecamaross (OP of the "Long list of amplifier and my review of each" multi-year thread) who feels I’d need to go to the Luxman pre/pwr 900u system to beat the Diablo, and these are WAY more expensive. That dude has a ton of hands-on experience beyond what any reasonable hobbyist should have and he is worth listening to.
So yes, I am intentionally not giving weight to my concerns around service. And I don’t know that Gryphon has N.A. authorized repair, as I asked my dealer this and I got a bit of a fuzzy answer ("Gryphon engineers can walk technicians through diagnostics over the phone, and its possible that if only one module or board needs switching out that it can be done remotely"). To me it sounds like any real service will require shipping to Gryphon headquarters.  In fact, even my dealer thought they had an issue with their previous demo unit (turned out the unit was fine) and they had to ship it back to Denmark.  In short, I’m resigned to paying a lot in shipping should I require out of warranty service, and hoping that Gryphon continues as a business even without their original founder, which I think is more likely than not. Also, my dealer offered me a similar deal to the one Jetter referenced on Audiogon, on their demo Diablo which I tested. I considered this as they would include the DAC and phono modules which is a huge value, but in the end I don’t think I can get over two cosmetic scratches on their demo unit, even though they are minor. Also they have no history of the unit, it was simply provided as a "distributor demo". So I think I will be going with a new Diablo with the DAC module, instead of the demo option. The internal DAC module on its own performs so well, that this in itself warrants getting excited about!