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New DAC Not a Dramatic Improvement?

Ok, So after much thought and asking questions here on audiogon as to whether I should get a new cdp or DAC, I decided on a DAC because I plan on implementing a music server with a Mac Mini. I got it last week and hooked it up so that I could do A/B comparisons with my cdp as is, and through the DAC. My cdp is a 1-2 year old Onkyo dv-sp405 dvd/cd player. At first I was impressed. The bass and vocals were more defined, and there seemed to be more space. Not a lot more space, but just a little bit more openess. The vocals were also moved forward in the soundstage and had more thickness. The thing is, none of these things were very dramatic. THe more time I have sat and listened and done comparisons on many cd's I find the results vary. On some cd's there is significant improvement, and on others, hardly noticeable. In a blind test, do I think I could reliably say whether I was listening to the cdp directly or through the DAC? Let's just say I wouldnt bet my life on it. I probably wouldnt even bet 20$ on it, unless I could hear the two back to back, and on some recordings, not even then.

Now I know about diminishing returns, but I would think the difference between a 150$ dvd/cdp and a 2K$ DAC would be pretty obvious. On top of that, My DAC is hooked up with Transparent Cables (MW Super) and my cdp with 50$ Monster Cables.

Continuing.. I expect some people with say that a good dac needs a good transport. Some will probably say that the dac is being held back by the onkyo as a transport. I have also compared the cdp through the DAC against apple lossless files played from my computer through USB. They are identical.

What could be the weak link? I do not want to say what DAC I am using but lets just say it is a very recent one and around 2K. It is from a very respected company and very well reviewed. My other gear is a McIntosh MA6450 integrated, gallo ref 3.1 speakers, transparent cables. Could it be that my amp is not very revealing? I am thinking about selling the DAC and getting a cheaper one (DAC MAGIC, PS AUDIO DL3) since I will need one for my Mac Mini anyway. Honestly, I just dont think I can justify having 2K in my current DAC for the minimal difference.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.
farjamed
jylee
306 posts
 
I think you have confirmed one theory that many believe in: that modern digital gears sound pretty similar to each other. Modern 24 bit DAC chips from BB/TI/Wolfson are dime a dozen, and some of the budget players nowadays share the same DAC chips that used to be reserved for high end CDP a decade ago. In order to hear any major difference in sound, I think you need to go above $2000 mark, or go with some unconventional design (non-oversampling, no-filtering, tubed output). Otherwise they all pretty much share the same off the shelf DAC chip and filters, and the small design difference in the rest of the circuits in power supply and output stage yield small audible differences.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
There are several possible explanations, but the bottom line is that you don't hear much difference and you don't think you can justify the $2K expense.

Seems to me you've answered your own question. Sell the DAC and move on.

No regrets.
photon46
1,008 posts
 
Jylee may be right, or it could be that other things are also holding back your new dac's potential. Regarding your comparisons, I don't mean to instantly digress to a different subject, but I think Apple lossless is an inferior sounding codec. This has been discussed at length in other threads with diverse opinions voiced. Who knows if our different perceptions are the result of our imagination or different equipment? In any event, I'd suggest comparing WAV files to the cd player just to eliminate a variable. I've upgraded cd players several times and my Assemblage DAC2.7 Platinum has sounded demonstrably better with each upgrade. So, don't discount the transport's contribution. You don't mention anything about your power conditioning, are you using stock power cords and wall power? Attention to this factor can also contribute to a cleaner sonic window that allows for differences to be apparent. There may not be a "weak link" per se. It could be your entire system is not synergistically combined. I'm not saying it is. Just simply stating that sometimes it takes replacing more than one link in the chain really optimize sound reproduction for your room and tastes. If you are basically happy with the sound you are getting, your instincts to get something less expensive and spend resources elsewhere are probably well founded.
tholt
545 posts
 
Tvad, as always the voice of terse reason and the bottom line. I think he's right, but I'm also in your camp and would scratch my head at the seeming inconsistency of cost/benefit. I ran into a similar experience recently where a recently bought PS1 (the one everyone's talking about) indeed was not significantly worse to my ears then my +$3k player. Really makes you crazy and wonder about the marketing engine behind it all.

IMO is if it doesn't sound right now, no cable, tweak or the like will change it dramatically enough in the right direction.
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