$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Cmk,

Nice system. I really like your speakers. I mean they almost look alive, or something. I'm sure you get that comment a lot from the non-audiophile types that stumble into your listening room.

I have not considered Schroeder in the past because of price. They make one hell of an arm, and wow is it cool looking. (Sorry Twl!) The Model 2 should make a good match with the Teres; it's listed on the Teres web site as an approved arm. Now the question I have for you is how much does it cost? If it's under two big ones, I will give it serious consideration. But any arm I buy will need to give me flexibility for future cartridge swapping. Right now it's a toss up between the ZXY and the Shelter 501. But I may also want to try a Benz Micro or a Dynavector in the future. It would be financially painful indeed to have to buy a different tonearm for each cartridge. Now it makes a lot more sense why I see a few turntables with multiple arms and arm mounts.

By the way, which cartridge do you use on your Schroeder? How did you go about choosing it?

Soliver,

I appreciate the Music Maker/Hadcock recommendation. If the Music Maker were to be my last cartridge, I just might go for it. But I think I have my heart set on a moving coil. I know that may sound a bit irrational, but there it is. What can I say? But wait a minute...

It seems that the Music Maker is a redesigned Grado Reference without the wooden body. It has a high compliance and a relatively high output of 4.0 mV. The descriptions of I have read in the three reviews of the cartridge tell me that it has a sound similar to the Grado Sonata but with more transparency and detail and a better balanced frequency response. To paraphrase TNT Audio, female voices are natural and sensual, as one would expect from a Grado. Sibilants are very natural and not harsh at all. The Music Maker is a good tracker, has excellent bass and bass articulation, something missing in the Sonata, and is smooth and easy to listen to. TNT goes on to say that it sounds like a really good CD player, minus any upper midrange brightness or coarseness in the upper most registers. 6 Moons concurs and adds that soundstaging is very 3-D and instruments have a slight rounding. Not tinny at all. And Stereo Times, using mystic and even impassioned language, describes the Music Maker as having an uncanny ability to convey the genuine gestalt of the music.

"No single aspect of its sonic performance stuck out. It didn't sound bright and lean, nor mellow and muffled. It didn't sound fast or slow...It just sounded like music."

While such languages pulls at the more poetic aspects of my heart, it does lack a little objectivity in enabling me to grasp the true nature of Music Maker. Also, at a thousand big ones, the Music Maker puts itself in a category close to the Grado Statement Reference and Benz Micro L2 just two hundred dollars away. Having said that, the Music Maker doesn't do the Grado tango nor does it have the Grado hum!

Twl,

If Dougdeacon is the man, then u'd the man of the man! (Well, that really didn't make much sense?)

I do have plans to at least try the Shelter 501 (I hope Dougdeacon ain't readin' this!). So if that's the case, the Hadcock won't work as a one-arm solution. It also appears that the Music Maker, with a compliance of 30 cu, places it in a category apart from cartridges like Shelter, Koetsu, and Denon. Of those three, it would be the Shelter for sure.

"When you start bringing "looks" into the equation, and thinking that performance may not be affected, you are venturing into very dangerous territory."

That's what my friend said about my wife six years ago. Well things seem to be working out between us so maybe there's hope for a tonearm? : > )

As for the Triplanar, its too much on the pricey side so maybe I will have to pass.

By the way, what do you think about the ZYX R100 Fuji? You can e-mail me if your feedback is controversial?

Now, I would like to know how to determine the compliance of a cartridge and the mass of a tonearm? Moreover, how do I match up compliance with mass? Robert Hartley (Now don't make fun of him!) says it's important but doesn't bother to explain how to do the math or where to obtain such information. Nor does he talk at length about matching a tonearm's bearing assembly with the cartridge to be used. Help!

Here's another question: Can the Origin Live Encounter handle both a ZYX and a Shelter? I know you use the Silver version, so that must work well, correct? What about that possibility?

Here's yet another question: You have the Teres 245. Did you consider the Teres 255 with the bird-shot platter? I know the lead adds mass, but is it worth the extra cost and doesn't one need a more powerful motor to spin the added weight?

Thanks for your help.

Dougdeacon,

I didn't know that the tonearm cable should be uninterrupted for higher-quality MC cartridges, like the ZYX. I didn't know that cable breaks would degrade the sound. With the cable design of the Moerch DP-6, how much degradation would result by this design? Would it be a small amount or would it be noticeable by someone like me? The Moerch has the flexibility of interchangeable arms to match different cartridge compliances, but what good would that be if the cable disrupts too much of the fidelity? And do you think the Origin Live Encounter could do double duty by handling both the Shelter 501 and the ZYX?

In regards to ZYX, Robert Levi has done handsprings over the ZYX R100H, whereas Stereophile's Sam Tellig felt it was uninvolving, or something like that. Also Michael Fremer was underwhelmed by the more expensive ZYX R-100 FS, and Art Dudley's response to the ZYX R-1000 Airy S was somewhat lukewarm at best. My concern about the ZYX is that it might be too neutral and may not be involving enough, especially when I think about how neutral sounding my speakers are all ready and may be pushed into sounding perhaps sterile.

No, I don't listen to hard rock, techno, punk, or electronica. I listen to classical music and jazz. I even have a Perry Como recording! (Now how bad is that?) But I don't understand how the Shelter 901 would not be good for classical music or jazz?

Thanks for your help as always!

Doug
Frank discontinued the model 1, replacing it with the DPS which is cheaper than the 1, but the DPS offers easier setup and borrows some parts of the model 2, but with a wooden armwand. The model 2 has always been on his line. In fact, he hinted at its resonance dampening properties in the other "Schroeder arm" thread. All his arms have the thread suspension and magnetic dampening and therefore share a similar family sound.

Artar1
Thanks. Those spks follow the principle of less is more. Tube power with high efficiency full range spks is audio heaven. ;) I play all kinds of music, classical, jazz, rock, pop, new age, except metal.

I'm not sure who the dealer/agent is where you are. If its the US, then I think its Audio Advancements. I'm not in the US, but it should be below $2k.

As to matching, the model 2 has an effective mass of 12g and should match 80% of carts out there. You can do some calculations about the cart/arm resonance to see if they match your cart of choice. For carts like the 103r(low compliance), Frank supplies a brass plate which increases the mass by 6g and would allow you a wider choice.

I'm using the Dynavector Te Kaitora low output mc. I had the TK bef getting the Schroeder. Well I like the Dyna sound, its a bit of a mix between the liquid, warm school and the strict analytical cool school, but has excellent dynamics when matched with an appropriate phono stage. The Karat D17mkII has a similar sound, but the TK is fuller and warmer.