Twl,
If Dougdeacon is the man, then u'd the man of the man! (Well, that really didn't make much sense?)
I do have plans to at least try the Shelter 501 (I hope Dougdeacon ain't readin' this!). So if that's the case, the Hadcock won't work as a one-arm solution. It also appears that the Music Maker, with a compliance of 30 cu, places it in a category apart from cartridges like Shelter, Koetsu, and Denon. Of those three, it would be the Shelter for sure.
"When you start bringing "looks" into the equation, and thinking that performance may not be affected, you are venturing into very dangerous territory."
That's what my friend said about my wife six years ago. Well things seem to be working out between us so maybe there's hope for a tonearm? : > )
As for the Triplanar, its too much on the pricey side so maybe I will have to pass.
By the way, what do you think about the ZYX R100 Fuji? You can e-mail me if your feedback is controversial?
Now, I would like to know how to determine the compliance of a cartridge and the mass of a tonearm? Moreover, how do I match up compliance with mass? Robert Hartley (Now don't make fun of him!) says it's important but doesn't bother to explain how to do the math or where to obtain such information. Nor does he talk at length about matching a tonearm's bearing assembly with the cartridge to be used. Help!
Here's another question: Can the Origin Live Encounter handle both a ZYX and a Shelter? I know you use the Silver version, so that must work well, correct? What about that possibility?
Here's yet another question: You have the Teres 245. Did you consider the Teres 255 with the bird-shot platter? I know the lead adds mass, but is it worth the extra cost and doesn't one need a more powerful motor to spin the added weight?
Thanks for your help. |
Dougdeacon,
I didn't know that the tonearm cable should be uninterrupted for higher-quality MC cartridges, like the ZYX. I didn't know that cable breaks would degrade the sound. With the cable design of the Moerch DP-6, how much degradation would result by this design? Would it be a small amount or would it be noticeable by someone like me? The Moerch has the flexibility of interchangeable arms to match different cartridge compliances, but what good would that be if the cable disrupts too much of the fidelity? And do you think the Origin Live Encounter could do double duty by handling both the Shelter 501 and the ZYX?
In regards to ZYX, Robert Levi has done handsprings over the ZYX R100H, whereas Stereophile's Sam Tellig felt it was uninvolving, or something like that. Also Michael Fremer was underwhelmed by the more expensive ZYX R-100 FS, and Art Dudley's response to the ZYX R-1000 Airy S was somewhat lukewarm at best. My concern about the ZYX is that it might be too neutral and may not be involving enough, especially when I think about how neutral sounding my speakers are all ready and may be pushed into sounding perhaps sterile.
No, I don't listen to hard rock, techno, punk, or electronica. I listen to classical music and jazz. I even have a Perry Como recording! (Now how bad is that?) But I don't understand how the Shelter 901 would not be good for classical music or jazz?
Thanks for your help as always!
|
Doug
Frank discontinued the model 1, replacing it with the DPS which is cheaper than the 1, but the DPS offers easier setup and borrows some parts of the model 2, but with a wooden armwand. The model 2 has always been on his line. In fact, he hinted at its resonance dampening properties in the other "Schroeder arm" thread. All his arms have the thread suspension and magnetic dampening and therefore share a similar family sound.
Artar1
Thanks. Those spks follow the principle of less is more. Tube power with high efficiency full range spks is audio heaven. ;) I play all kinds of music, classical, jazz, rock, pop, new age, except metal.
I'm not sure who the dealer/agent is where you are. If its the US, then I think its Audio Advancements. I'm not in the US, but it should be below $2k.
As to matching, the model 2 has an effective mass of 12g and should match 80% of carts out there. You can do some calculations about the cart/arm resonance to see if they match your cart of choice. For carts like the 103r(low compliance), Frank supplies a brass plate which increases the mass by 6g and would allow you a wider choice.
I'm using the Dynavector Te Kaitora low output mc. I had the TK bef getting the Schroeder. Well I like the Dyna sound, its a bit of a mix between the liquid, warm school and the strict analytical cool school, but has excellent dynamics when matched with an appropriate phono stage. The Karat D17mkII has a similar sound, but the TK is fuller and warmer. |
Artar 1,
I haven't heard a Moerch so I can't speak about its sound, except to note that one possible limitation. Obviously Raul likes it and he's heard a lot of arms. It certainly finds its way onto a lot of high quality rigs. Ditto for the Shelter 501 BTW. It's okay with me if you buy one! :-)
The OL Encounter has an effective mass of 14g. Excellent for Shelter, Denon, Koetsu. Probably okay for ZYX though borderline. My arm has 11g effective mass and its a perfect match for a ZYX judging by resonance frequencies. (These can be easily measured with the HFN&RR test record.) An Encounter/ZYX would resonate near the bottom of the "ideal" 8-12 Hz range. What kind of floors and TT support will you have? The more stable the floor and support the less a slightly low resonance frequency is likely to matter.
Good that you're doing your research on the ZYX and other carts. Dudley's Airy review seemed more positive to me than your characterization. Remember how he kept saying things like, "Many of you will rush out right now"? The flaws or shortcomings he listed at the end were IMO precisely due to the weaknesses of the three rigs he tested it on. (He partly used a Rega P3 for pete's sake. That's beyond ridiculous.) This review and another one he did of the Galibier Quattro were discussed here recently at some length. Search and ye shall find!
I only vaguely remember Fremer's review. I vividly remember Arthur Salvatore's. Despite his abrasive style, I trust Salvatore's ears and skills more than Fremer's. When he describes something I've heard, I generally agree with his description. The only way one could be "underwhelmed" by the Airy2 is if it were poorly set up, poorly matched or if (as Raul correctly likes to say) one prefers something other than the sound of natural instruments and voices.
The Shelter 901 was the cartridge du jour last year and the year before. That's why I bought one for my first MC. Since then I've heard it side by side with top Koetsus and my ZYX. The Koetsu's slightly burnish the leading and trailing edges of every waveform. This gives them that fabled, gentle warmth or glow, which is indeed seductive if not quite accurate. The 901 does the opposite in a sense. It overshoots on leading edges, which slightly etches the edges of everything and makes it all sound a touch over the top. Very exciting, very detailed, not at all warmish in any respect whatsoever (except on a Schroeder Reference. That combo was magical).
I've only heard your ML's once, and that in a shop with a poor setup. Even worse, they were brand new and certainly not broken in. I'll trust your characterizaton of course. (BTW, do you hear a disconnect between the bass drivers and the midrange/treble. I thought I did but I was only there for a minute.) If the ML's are the slightest bit bright or edgy or tizzy, a Shelter 901 may emphasize that. A Koetsu will round it off a bit. A ZYX will play it pretty much straight down the middle, nothing emphasized but nothing hidden either.
BTW, there's a good chance my 901 will be available for a cheap demo in your home fairly soon. Keep your eyes pealed to this forum. That would be worth more than all this talk!
Tonearm mass and cartridge compliance are normally shown in the manufacturer's specs. Formulas for *estimating* the resonance frequency of any particular combo can be found by searching at VA. |
Artar 1,
I haven't heard a Moerch so I can't speak about its sound, except to note that one possible limitation. Obviously Raul likes it and he's heard a lot of arms. It certainly finds its way onto a lot of high quality rigs. Ditto for the Shelter 501 BTW. It's okay with me if you buy one! :-)
The OL Encounter has an effective mass of 14g. Excellent for Shelter, Denon, Koetsu. Probably okay for ZYX though borderline. My arm has 11g effective mass and its a perfect match for a ZYX judging by resonance frequencies. (These can be easily measured with the HFN&RR test record.) An Encounter/ZYX would resonate near the bottom of the "ideal" 8-12 Hz range. What kind of floors and TT support will you have? The more stable the floor and support the less a slightly low resonance frequency is likely to matter.
Good that you're doing your research on the ZYX and other carts. Dudley's Airy review seemed more positive to me than your characterization. Remember how he kept saying things like, "Many of you will rush out right now"? The flaws or shortcomings he listed at the end were IMO precisely due to the weaknesses of the three rigs he tested it on. (He partly used a Rega P3 for pete's sake. That's beyond ridiculous.) This review and another one he did of the Galibier Quattro were discussed here recently at some length. Search and ye shall find!
I only vaguely remember Fremer's review. I vividly remember Arthur Salvatore's. Despite his abrasive style, I trust Salvatore's ears and skills more than Fremer's. When he describes something I've heard, I generally agree with his description. The only way one could be "underwhelmed" by the Airy2 is if it were poorly set up, poorly matched or if (as Raul correctly likes to say) one prefers something other than the sound of natural instruments and voices.
The Shelter 901 was the cartridge du jour last year. That's why I bought one for my first MC. Since then I've heard it side by side with top Koetsus and my ZYX. The Koetsu's slightly burnish the leading and trailing edges of every waveform. This gives them that fabled, gentle warmth or glow, which is indeed seductive if not quite accurate. The 901 does the opposite in a sense. It overshoots on leading edges, which slightly etches the edges of everything and makes it all sound a touch over the top. Very exciting, very detailed, not warm in any respect whatsoever (except on a Schroeder Reference. That combo was magical. Cmk's suggestion of the 2 should be taken seriously).
I've only heard your ML's once, and that in a shop with a poor setup. Even worse, they were brand new and certainly not broken in. I'll trust your characterizaton of course. (BTW, do you hear a disconnect between the bass drivers and the midrange/treble. I thought I did but I was only there for a minute.) If the ML's are the slightest bit bright or edgy or tizzy, a Shelter 901 may emphasize that. A Koetsu will round it off a bit. A ZYX will play it pretty much straight down the middle, nothing emphasized but nothing hidden either.
BTW, there's a good chance my 901 will be available for a cheap demo in your home fairly soon. Keep your eyes pealed to this forum. That would be worth more than all this talk!
Tonearm mass and cartridge compliance are normally shown in the manufacturer's specs. Formulas for *estimating* the resonance frequency of any particular combo can be found by searching at VA. |
