Reason for buying old/classic turntables


Could you please clarify why many people buy old/classic turntable from the 1960's or 1970's? Are those turntables better than the contemporary ones? Is it just emotion and nostalgia? I'm also asking because these classic turntables are often quite expensive (like vintage automobiles and wine). Recently I saw an advertisement for the Technics SP-10 Mk II for $3,000 and a Micro Seiki SX-111 for $6,000. You can also buy a modern turntable like an Avid, a Clearaudio or Raven for that kind of money. Or are these classic turntables still superior to the modern ones?

Chris
dazzdax
I know what you mean Lew. My stock plinthed Lenco beat my other table hands down. True, nothing like what you had, but still. I'm not 100% convinced that one has to mount the Lenco in a "giant direct coupled" plinth. After cleaning, lubing and bolting the top plate directly to the stock plinth, I used my GF's stethoscope to listen. It was dead quiet, except for one area on the left side of the plinth, closest to the motor. And then, it wasn't very noisey. No noise on the top plate anywhere. I do have some ideas about making some mods to the stock plinth to add more mass. I'm not going to cut on the top plate of this deck. It is literally a strong 8 or 9/10 AG rating, and it would just be wrong to do so. Who knows, years down the road, I may have the only non-cut Lenco...
:-)

Kinda like cutting on a '59 vette. Just ain't right...... Now, there's a vintage car I would love to be able to afford.
There are moments, when driving a late 50's Porsche at 9/10ths, when you're in the groove, that really can't be equalled and certainly not beaten by any modern sports car, even a modern Porsche. Something has been lost, just like in the LP vs CD comparison. Modern cars are heavier and have those big fat tires which give a less pleasant ride quality than the old dangerous skinny tires on old sports cars. In my Spyder at 90 mph in a drift you almost felt like you were floating on air in the best fun ride possible. Can an idler or a dd table from yesteryear provide an analogous unique experience that gets you closer to the music? I think maybe yes, with the generous application of modern ideas on plinths, tonearms, cartridges thrown into the mix.
Wow! My analogy to vintage cars was purely from the pride of ownership perspective. Nevertheless since a couple of folks have responded, let me develop the analogy further, just for fun.

Vintage sports cars for the consumer had significant trickle down technology from the R&D that went into race cars, just think of Aston Martin, Jaguar, MG, Bugatti, Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, even Renault and even Honda, Subaru and so on. Of course today F1 relies on technology adaptation and the only thing that trickles down is brand positioning.

If you think about the first real consumer Hi-Fi, most of the offerings were adapted from broadcast and professional requirements to spin records in a consistent fashion in studios and radio stations. The rational for developing the Technics / Matsushita, Sony, Victor, EMT, Garrard consumer decks etc. came from a new market demand. Many of these offerings were rebranded for the newly emerging high end retail market.Consumer Audio developed quickly as the need for high quality home record players developed and some companies such as Dual, AR and later Linn became were really pure play consumer brands (the Dual company history is particularly interesting, but I can't think of a Dual deck that is iconic today) because the price of entry was low, very little Intellectual Property protection, no regulatory requirements / standards and hence no real barriers to entry. Today that whole business model remains alive and well in consumer audio! Most of us have little insight to the PRO business, but some of the best stuff available today for the consumer comes from audio companies supplying the PRO market, such as VTl. Spectron etc. So I don't argue with the previous post that there is trickle down technology coming into retail products.

However, in vintage audio, the trickle down technology for those rim drive and DD decks came from broadcast requirements, not mass consumer product development (which would be trickle up I guess). Tape would be an even better example. So I reject the notion that high end turntables were developed as a by product of mass consumer R&D budgets. Now, today there may exceptions, such as Marantz, but you can't argue with the reality that these vintage tables garnering so much attention here are all iterations of broadcast products. The specialty esoteric products from such companies as Micro-Seiki, Kenwood, Nakamichi, Luxman, and even Pioneer were purely developed for consumer markets and relied on high tolerance engineering and smart circuit design that was very specific to the turntable platform for esoteric products. No different to the fine engineering that went into the real sports cars, Alpha, Allards, Jensen, Austin-Healeys, Studebaker, Triumph, TVR, etc etc.

Now frankly, the sports car market was not a lot different, many brands, no barriers to entry other than money, not sustainable, but still highly desirable to own today. I don't think high end audio is a lot different. Some brands come and go in the night and others such as Linn, Naim, ARC, B&W, Spendor, Quad, Manaplanar, VTL, Martin Logan, McIntosh remain (and some changed hands and got refinanced a couple of times) and lets not forget the Accuphase type of companies - another lust of mine.

So, when you jump into a 1960's E-Type, DB7, Corvette, or 911 it does not really matter if the specs don't meet that latest turbo - it is the whole experience that counts - and that was the point of my analogy and I rest my case.

Steve
I might not be as experienced as others posting in this thread by here is my 2c on the subject.

*The best yesterday's v.s SOTA today (in stock form)*
IMO/IME Vintage is inferior. Today's knowledge, technology, new composite materials implementation and innovative techniques used to accomplish remarkable results in analog reproduction are 'LY' ahead of what was considered state of the art in 60's or 70's.

However ( from my recent experience ), it is possible to rebuild and tweak the vintage turntable to perform astonishingly well. It takes time, effort and patience, but can be rewarding.

As to my personal reasons...................I guess its was the curiosity and satisfaction from DIY-er/tweaker point of view.
Of coarse there is also the pride of ownership as the icing on the cake.

Regards and
Marry Christmas to all

Mariusz