Sirspeedy,
If you find the Raven overpriced, then I wonder how you find some other designs priced well above? You have me quite surprised. Then how is a tiny cartridge priced more than many a turntable for what is essential almost no material cost. I just don't get it. Do you honestly believe that a $1000 cartridge is that different in cost of production from a $8000 cartridge. You might as well condemn the whole audio industry. Which is how you described to me your sentiments earlier. And not in relation to a TW table but to your experience with other products. Are your listening biases the only ones to be accepted? I have listened with you in a few rooms years ago, and I would easily state that our biases diverge.
On to the VPI. Many an original owner of a VPI turntable, or SME, and quite a few others have gone away from suspended decks. I assume they all had to convince themselves they achieved better performance and couldn't hear any improvement since obviously the design of a suspended deck is far superior in your book. Note: how I am not mentioning just TW. The arguement here is more of a suspended vs. unsuspended. There are several adherents to both camps.
I might add, VPI and others have greatly improved the design of thier turntables since some of the newer decks have displaced them on the market. Many of the design improvements are for the better. I wonder why it took so long. Maybe competition in this case benefits the consumer. But the VPI isn't inexpensive or even less expensive. As a value at the lower end it is a great table. But the high end turntables are costly. The new platters have definitely improved the sound of recent. Based on discussions with owners of VPI tables, not all models are equal. I won't go into the specifics as I have no personal experience.
Finally, I have a friend w. a very high end turntable that borrowed my Raven motor. A motor that has been measured to be accurate to one of the highest rates possible. This measured by an independant reviewer and not at the motor but instead at the platter. If I recall correctly something like 0.03%. That is direct drive teritory. Also measured noise was incredibly low.
All I can say is my friends amazement of how such a motor improved the sound of what is already a very well engineered turntable that was rated class A in stereophile for many years. He immediately noticed the increase in speed accuracy from the reduction of noise and the improvement in tracking the inner tracks on an LP. Much of this performance can be had on the lowly Raven One.
You are being too black and white in your statements earlier and my response is in accordance. When you live with a turntable and have owned others then please have such a firm valuation of a specific brand. Mine are based on experience and for sure some personal bias. But... my friends w. lesser decks were not told that mine is better. I did mention the ease of changing, adjusting and running multiple tonearms. The speed stability and the ease of use or all excellent. And last is the bearing design is unique among turntables.
As far as a record clampling system, how does the TW prevent the use of a record clamp. I own a Harmonix Clamp and a few outer rings. I just hate outer rings as they are a pain to use. I almost never use the outer ring (which I love) for that reason. Especially if you want to use a 9 inch tonearm or a triplanar.
If you find the Raven overpriced, then I wonder how you find some other designs priced well above? You have me quite surprised. Then how is a tiny cartridge priced more than many a turntable for what is essential almost no material cost. I just don't get it. Do you honestly believe that a $1000 cartridge is that different in cost of production from a $8000 cartridge. You might as well condemn the whole audio industry. Which is how you described to me your sentiments earlier. And not in relation to a TW table but to your experience with other products. Are your listening biases the only ones to be accepted? I have listened with you in a few rooms years ago, and I would easily state that our biases diverge.
On to the VPI. Many an original owner of a VPI turntable, or SME, and quite a few others have gone away from suspended decks. I assume they all had to convince themselves they achieved better performance and couldn't hear any improvement since obviously the design of a suspended deck is far superior in your book. Note: how I am not mentioning just TW. The arguement here is more of a suspended vs. unsuspended. There are several adherents to both camps.
I might add, VPI and others have greatly improved the design of thier turntables since some of the newer decks have displaced them on the market. Many of the design improvements are for the better. I wonder why it took so long. Maybe competition in this case benefits the consumer. But the VPI isn't inexpensive or even less expensive. As a value at the lower end it is a great table. But the high end turntables are costly. The new platters have definitely improved the sound of recent. Based on discussions with owners of VPI tables, not all models are equal. I won't go into the specifics as I have no personal experience.
Finally, I have a friend w. a very high end turntable that borrowed my Raven motor. A motor that has been measured to be accurate to one of the highest rates possible. This measured by an independant reviewer and not at the motor but instead at the platter. If I recall correctly something like 0.03%. That is direct drive teritory. Also measured noise was incredibly low.
All I can say is my friends amazement of how such a motor improved the sound of what is already a very well engineered turntable that was rated class A in stereophile for many years. He immediately noticed the increase in speed accuracy from the reduction of noise and the improvement in tracking the inner tracks on an LP. Much of this performance can be had on the lowly Raven One.
You are being too black and white in your statements earlier and my response is in accordance. When you live with a turntable and have owned others then please have such a firm valuation of a specific brand. Mine are based on experience and for sure some personal bias. But... my friends w. lesser decks were not told that mine is better. I did mention the ease of changing, adjusting and running multiple tonearms. The speed stability and the ease of use or all excellent. And last is the bearing design is unique among turntables.
As far as a record clampling system, how does the TW prevent the use of a record clamp. I own a Harmonix Clamp and a few outer rings. I just hate outer rings as they are a pain to use. I almost never use the outer ring (which I love) for that reason. Especially if you want to use a 9 inch tonearm or a triplanar.