more help with vinyl..

Hi,

I'll give you my best attempt at answering this question and I hope it helps. The only thing I have going for me is my personal experience. Okay, my first turntable was a top-of-the-line Thorens. It's been so long that I forget the model number but it was purchased circa 1970, was equipped with Shures best MM cartridge and the best arm from Thorens. So, at the time, it was arguably top drawer stuff. My speakers were very revealing horns being driven by tube amps. Every new album (never considered buying used back then) had surface noise. As soon as the music began the sound was wonderful. The occasional tic or pop was pretty pronounced. By accident I figured out that a wall shelf would eliminate some of the noise. I then moved my speakers into another room leaving the electronics in the original room. The results were much better. All this was discovered by accident and, to be honest, I didn't connect any dots about the science behind the improvements. Remember, vinyl was the only game back then unless you bought reel to reel prerecorded tapes.

Around 1979 I auditioned an LP12 at my dealer. I couldn't believe how black a vinyl background could be until that moment. What I had discovered by accident and didn't care to learn from happened to the designer of the LP12. He went on to build a giant company that we have learned to hate despite his huge contribution to state of the art audio. But I digress.

I got cheap on the cartridge selection when I purchased my first LP12 and was disappointed with the surface noise as compared to the LP12 I auditioned. Yeah, my dealer tried to tell me this but I really thought that he was simply trying to get deeper into my pocket. Within a month I replaced my first purchased cartridge with a very expensive moving coil design and paid the price for a phono stage upgrade to my tube preamp. The result? Nearly dead silence with all my older vinyl that was so noisy before.

Tic and pops are of a very short duration when measured scientifically. A poorly designed turntable/arm will echo these momentary noises and actually amplify them making them seem much bigger than they really are. The case with the cartridge is similar when you talk about surface noise. Cheaper cartridges for whatever reason enhance the noise while the more expensive designs minimize it. I have no science to back this up, only experience.

In 1984 I purchased another LP12 since my first one could not be upgraded totally to the new standards. I own this table today and have no compelling reason to replace it. I know that there are better turntables to be had and if I somehow lost my LP12 I would likely buy one from another manufacturer. The point I would like to make here is that my turntable has proven to be the best audio purchase I have ever made and in the long run it has proven to have the highest value in my system.

If your used vinyl looks good and hasn't been played previously with a damaged stylus or poor alignment, it probably is good and the surface noise demon is likely your table/arm combination. DON'T DONATE THE USED ALBUMS TO GOOD WILL. Someday, hopefully sooner rather than later, you will get a newer, quality table/arm/cartridge that will wake up your entire vinyl library.

This isn't a cheap proposition but whatever you spend is going to be a great investment for the long haul. Don't give up and when in doubt, buy software.

Good Luck!
Patrick

Disc Doctor (not related to Discwasher) is probably the cheapest cleaning alternative. You buy the fluid and the brushes and you become your own machine. It's time consuming, but it works. That said, there are times when the LP noise isn't related to dirt. Some are bad pressings, or just pressed on cheap noisy vinyl. You'll never know until you clean them.

Dla405j,

I have experienced the same problems with disk washers. I have a Nitty Gritty. They do help somewhat, but will not turn a scratchy record into a clean sounding one. Nothing will. Generally speaking, the noise on these records is a result of damage to the surface of the record and not just dirt.

I am into jazz and there is a growing amount of new vinyl releases at reasonable prices. There are also many used records available, but I only buy records touted as M- or NM. Even then I occasionally get burned. It's part of the game. Also, try to establish a good customer relationship with local used record dealers. My dealer will let me return any record for store credit if I'm not satisfied for any reason.

The biggest problem are the few titles which, for some reason, have attracted the attention of collectors. Up until about a year ago, it was impossible to get a decent sounding Sun Ra album for less than $100. Thankfully, most of his albums have been re-released and can be had for under $15 or $20. With some exceptions, re-releases will usually sound better and cleaner than the original and you don't have to pay for the collector value.

You have a perfectly fine turntable. Stick with it.

>>>said above by Lugnut: "Tic and pops are of a very short duration when measured scientifically. A poorly designed turntable/arm will echo these momentary noises and actually amplify them making them seem much bigger than they really are."

This is very true. Not only a short duraton but at a lower level(db). One factor in design is called "ultrasonic overload capability." Clicks can excite the resonance of the vinyl/tip and overload the pre-amp with ultra sonic signals that create IM distortion. The pre does not have the headroom to handle it. In short, many pres ampify the clicks and pops more than the signal.

This is discussed in many places. I'm culling from Morgan Jones, Valve Amplifiers, 2nd ed, pg 353.

Sincerely
I remain,

A few thoughts for the budding vinyl fanatic. First the VTA or angle that the stylus meets the record at may need tweeking. Try taking an old, destroyed, record, remove the turntable mat and place the record directly on the metal platter, now place the turntable mat on top of the record. The VTA has changed in the direction that usually minimizes ticks and pops. If you can find one, RCA Dynagroove records are very thin and good for this purpose. If you like the sound then try it with two records, or cut out a round piece of cardboard. Anything will do. Next, tap the tonearm with the side of a pencil. About 2/3 of the way to the pivot point you will hear the sound change. This is the primary resonance point of the arm. Take a few rubber bands and tightly put them around the arm at this point. This will, again, remove some unwanted high frequency resonance. Now notice that there is a little rubber ring at the back end of the headshell where the collet meets up with the arm. Remove it!. This will actually take you back in the other direction, but the increase in coherence and pace will start to shift the part of the sound that catches your ear. Don't forget to adjust tracking force and fine tune it by ear when you make these changes and removing the rubber ring will actually change alignment. Oh, and play the table with the dust cover off or, at least, open.
Marty