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more help with vinyl..

I posted on 11/02 and maybe one step closer to understaanding the complexity of tt's and music it produces. I have an old pioneer PL-516 with new belt & cartridge & 50 mostly used lp's. New Yamaha ax-596 amp with Paradigm speakers. 90% of my albums have much surface noise---pops etc.....newer stuff(mid-80's?) pop...that looks unplayed is ok. I bought the diskwasher system...no help. 2 weeks ago bought a great Ellington album.'59...looked great ..did the dw system again & again...only got worse.! I bought 2 new albums...played on my Kenwood system (new-2 years old and Pioneer PL_516) great! The Ellington record sounds bad on both systems...took the record to dealer in Spokane...auditioned Pro-ject 1.2....had seen reviews ..it sounded better but still bad. I bought the pro-ject 1.2 and will add a new cartridge (grado red) in about 6 months after I get this tt thing and vinyl figured out. I don't want to spend the $450 for machine but had hoped to save the 40 plus albums and restore them. It looks like I have to buy virgin or near mint records but most in second hand record stores look ok but still may sound poor (on my system)..am I right on this..? If this is right then I can only buy on internet or pay big $ for new records but at that cost maybe I should go for the convience of SACD, HDCD, etc. the cost differnce is not much over perfect LP"s. But once you hear great vinyl all your cd's sound so limited. Maybe the problem is I'm trying to do this on the cheap...? How do you get good vinyl sound for only $5-$10 per record...can you do this on my tt's...? HELP! What can I use on my records to restore sound..? anything..or give them to goodwill..? It doesn't seem to be a tt problem..a condition of my vinyl..? How do I keep my new ones from going bad...? I'm starting to get anal about this like you other guys...save me before it's too late...!
dla405j
gboren
143 posts
 
Dla405j,

I have experienced the same problems with disk washers. I have a Nitty Gritty. They do help somewhat, but will not turn a scratchy record into a clean sounding one. Nothing will. Generally speaking, the noise on these records is a result of damage to the surface of the record and not just dirt.

I am into jazz and there is a growing amount of new vinyl releases at reasonable prices. There are also many used records available, but I only buy records touted as M- or NM. Even then I occasionally get burned. It's part of the game. Also, try to establish a good customer relationship with local used record dealers. My dealer will let me return any record for store credit if I'm not satisfied for any reason.

The biggest problem are the few titles which, for some reason, have attracted the attention of collectors. Up until about a year ago, it was impossible to get a decent sounding Sun Ra album for less than $100. Thankfully, most of his albums have been re-released and can be had for under $15 or $20. With some exceptions, re-releases will usually sound better and cleaner than the original and you don't have to pay for the collector value.

You have a perfectly fine turntable. Stick with it.
clueless
763 posts
 
>>>said above by Lugnut: "Tic and pops are of a very short duration when measured scientifically. A poorly designed turntable/arm will echo these momentary noises and actually amplify them making them seem much bigger than they really are."

This is very true. Not only a short duraton but at a lower level(db). One factor in design is called "ultrasonic overload capability." Clicks can excite the resonance of the vinyl/tip and overload the pre-amp with ultra sonic signals that create IM distortion. The pre does not have the headroom to handle it. In short, many pres ampify the clicks and pops more than the signal.

This is discussed in many places. I'm culling from Morgan Jones, Valve Amplifiers, 2nd ed, pg 353.

Sincerely
I remain,
viridian's avatar
viridian
4,184 posts
 
A few thoughts for the budding vinyl fanatic. First the VTA or angle that the stylus meets the record at may need tweeking. Try taking an old, destroyed, record, remove the turntable mat and place the record directly on the metal platter, now place the turntable mat on top of the record. The VTA has changed in the direction that usually minimizes ticks and pops. If you can find one, RCA Dynagroove records are very thin and good for this purpose. If you like the sound then try it with two records, or cut out a round piece of cardboard. Anything will do. Next, tap the tonearm with the side of a pencil. About 2/3 of the way to the pivot point you will hear the sound change. This is the primary resonance point of the arm. Take a few rubber bands and tightly put them around the arm at this point. This will, again, remove some unwanted high frequency resonance. Now notice that there is a little rubber ring at the back end of the headshell where the collet meets up with the arm. Remove it!. This will actually take you back in the other direction, but the increase in coherence and pace will start to shift the part of the sound that catches your ear. Don't forget to adjust tracking force and fine tune it by ear when you make these changes and removing the rubber ring will actually change alignment. Oh, and play the table with the dust cover off or, at least, open.
Marty
sc53
689 posts
 
I think a bunch of people recommended this to you in your earlier post, but still it's worth saying again--before you spend any more money on new equipment, cartridge, or even albums, BUY A RECORD CLEANING MACHINE. There are a couple of models available and they do turn up used here and on eBay. You will never get the most out of your record collection, new or used, and your equipment, budget or state-of-the-art, until you start vacuum cleaning your LPs! Of course cleaning won't remedy damaged LPs, but much surface noise can be reduced if not eliminated by even one sweep on a VPI 16 cleaning machine. It's worth the expense!!
blkadr
731 posts
 
Some albums will always sound bad, even when new. This is still a very cost effective way to aquire music. Last night I went to my local "Manifest" and picked up four albums for $18. One new "cut-out", two near mint and one $5 loser (good return policy). 18 bucks will buy you one cd at your average chain. On "88 Basie Street" the sound is so good I cant imagine doing better with the new cd, worth $18 alone.
As for surface noise, a used VPI 19jr is about the cheapest way I have heard to get that quiet background without spending a fortune. Easy to mod or upgrade too. Bad pressing will never sound that good but its still the cheapest way and you can find some real gems that make it worthwhile.
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