ATC SCM12 and 50wpc Manley Stingray?

I have the SCM12's and they lost their dynamics and punch when I used them with my 45-watt ARC tube integrated. Instead, I use them as fronts in my small HT system in the bedroom, with an Acurus 125 x 5, and they are FANTASTIC! I think they need at least 100 watts to do their thing.

Thanks all for the comments received so far.

Misskuma -- to address the issue that you raised. I used to have a pretty serious tube preamp and solid state power amp, but I decided that I wanted to simplify things and travel a little lighter than the 85 pound hunk of metal that was my amplifier would allow. The Stingray gave me just about everything that I wanted in an integrated. No desire to change the amp just to accomodate a new speaker purchase. If the ATCs won't mate well with the Stingray, then I'll find something else that does.

But I am curious about why it takes so much power to run these speakers. The SCM12 is listed as having a sensitivity of 85db/1/1. Now I realize that some manufacturers fudge these numbers sometimes, but even if the number is more like 83db, if I am sitting perhaps 9 feet away and using a 50 wpc amp and listening at around 75db, why would the speaker need more power to play at these levels.

I realize that if I were trying to push peaks into the 90's then I could run out of juice, but at my usual levels? Is there something else about the design of the driver or implementation of the crossover that would cause this?

I could also understand if the impedence and phase angles were not tube friendly, that it would cause other problems that could result in the speakers not sounding too well with the Stingray. But as I said, the dealer I spoke with assured me that the speakers were a benign load for the amp. Has anyone seen a phase/impedence chart on these speakers?

Thanks again.

LIke I said, it's *possible* to run ATC with Stingray.

specs is a funny thing. I'd think ATC's specs is pretty conservative.
*on paper*, for intance, B&W won't be needing mega watts amps, but,
they quite often sound better with more power than less. Wilson speaker
also falls in the same. My WATT is 92db/4 ohm speakers on paper.
I have driven 'em with both tube and solid state. Even in my small den (10 X12)
I ended up using a 250 watt solid state amp. More power seems to
give a better control on woofers. Cleaner 'starts and stops'.

ATC drivers seem to be the same. Sure you can drive 'em with 50 watt,
but, in case you want to let your hair down and turn up a wick, I sure
would like to have a firm control at all time.
I'm living with SCM 10 for last 3 years and have used number of amps
with 'em. There is something to be said about *tube* power where
they can sound more powerful than what the number suggests.

*if* Stingray has a robust enough power supply, they might be ok.
I was told that ATC has a flat 8 ohm impedance but,
what hurts is that rediculously low sensitivity and of course their
sealed enclosure makes it even tougher to get any kinda bass without
a real power behind it. quite often, they get accused of not having
enough bass. From my experience, their bass goes flat when they
are underpowered. I haven't tried my pair with any tubes amps to date.
( afraid to damage the drivers ) SCM 12 at 85db will give you a wider
amp selection than my pair at 80db. If you are set on Stingray, you can
certainly try em and see. Keep us posted.

I am curious how they do.

unless tube amps have extraordinary power,they should be used with ported,tube friendly speaker systems...i used to own a set of hales loudspeakers (sealed enclosures) and they refused to sing with anything less than 200watts per channel. they did sound incredible when they were paired with the right amplifier.

I'm using Lafayette KT-550 55Watt/ch tube amp for my original SCM10 (80db)and it got plenty of power for my living room space( 22' X 14' X 8' ) It's never "lack of power" and the bass definitely could make the floor shake. I tried the Krells and they sound grainy compared to the tube amp and yet they don't produce more bass than the tube gear. For tube gears, it's not just about power rating, the output and power transformer has a lot to do with it. Therefore, if the stingray has adequate size of the transformers than it is most likely enough to drive it to a good room size.