Is this rude?

I have never had a problem when I have been honest and upfront with people. If someone came up to me and asked me to spend some time for my expertise, I would be able to make a clear decision if I have the time to do it. Also, I love talking to people about what I love, which most great salespeople or experts do, so I might be very willing to go beyond what I would do normally. If I sense I am being manipulated, I don't want spend anytime with that person.

My suggestion: Just be completely honest and forthright, and see what happens.

This is an interesting thread.

My own perspective is that one should go in and be 100% honest. You are a Conrad Johnson dealer. I currently have the possibility of purchasing a used MV60 amplifier for a very good price. I would like the opportunity of you allowing me to give it a listen to see if it is a good move for me. I am willing to do this at a time which is not busy, and by no means interfere with your other customers.

A good dealer would accept this proposition. It builds good will, and establishes both a rapport and a relationship with a potential new customer.

Sadly, both customer and dealer rarely follow this.

Many customers walk in, act like they are flush, and present themselves as being ready to make a deal if the unit is to their liking and the deal is good. They have no intention of buying from the dealer, and often come in at the most inconvenient times for the dealer, such as a Saturday afternoon.

A lot of dealers present themselves as obnoxious people, who are somehow gifted with better hearing, tastes, and decision making abilities than the customer. Not only do they hear better than the other person, they feel they can do a better job in making a decision between whether ARC, CJ, or Krell sounds best. In their demeanor, they end up putting off the customer, and instill in the person a sense that they never want to come back. Also, instead of dealing with money issues in a good way, they can turn things into a "you don't have enough money to be an audiophile" or "you don't have enough money to shop in my store" situation. I consider the trend I read here on Audiogon of paying to audition equipement the ultimate insult.

There is, and has for a long time, been very little effort on the part of many dealers to grow a customer base.

Thankfully, two local dealerships in my area let me basically listen to anything I was interested in as a teenager. They knew I had no ability to buy this type of equipment, but they developed the kind of relationship with me where they would encourage me to bring in my favorite CD and listen on this great system. Of course, they made no money that day, or the next, or the next, or the next.

But, in the long run, as soon as I was able to pay the fee, I bought an NAD 2600A from one of the dealers. And a good amount of gear from both of them. I feel comfortable walking into these stores, and in the end, have often bought new or demo equipment from them as opposed to buying used. Why? It just feels right.

Until dealers and customers go back to doing business in a better way, we will continue to have these discussion.

How would you feel if you put an item up on Audiogon, say an A/V processor, and someone sent you a zillion Emails asking operational questions and such , and then emailed you, Thanks, Thats helps alot , because my friend who does not know how to operate his , is selling me his for a song.

Hi Vinylphile: No offense taken and while there are laws that apply to interactions (vs. transactions) with one's own "tribe" the ones that I am talking about apply to all. As the Bible says to us: Don't forget that you were a stanger in a strange land. Treat the "stranger" as you would your family.

There are no exceptions for; "You shall not steal" and "do not put a stumbling block in front of the blind."

(I realize the above may be off topic but worth clarifying.)

When I go into a high-end store to browse I make sure to say I am not interested in buying but only doing looking. If the salesperson is busy I honor that. My experience has always been that if things aren't busy, the salesperson is pretty happy about showing his stuff off. Beats sitting around.

As the owner of a nice audio shop in Pasadena CA told me, "On your first visit I just want to get you thinking."

Nice thread. I just finished getting all newbie-educated and in an obsessive high-energy curve bought a couple of kayaks. As a reseller of used Subarus in a one-person business, I try to be completely transparent with my potential customers, and expect them to be with me, especially after I flood them with lots of info, and very carefully listen to their needs, fit them properly in adjustable seats, etc. Said attention, in addition to my technical product condition, has resulted in a business that's not 80-90% repeat and referral. Fine....
Knowing that discounted gear exists from paddling shops on-line, I approacjh local vendors to demo boats and learn from them FULLY EXPLAINING to them that there are 20% off deals everywhere...but that I don't necessarily expect them to meet those discounts. It's just part of the discussion to help refine realistic prices and decide which product level to aim at. The good dealers (and it's amazing to note that the kayak dealers I've met are really a VERY fine group of devotees, like some specialty audio dealers) seemed more interested in ensuring that I find the right boat, after carefully listening to my naively expressed needs, (lack of) knowledge, and desires. In one case a seller spent an hour with me in driving rain holding a pair of boats so I could compare them. So I picked one, as well a few items of clothing, and an expensive paddle. (I quickly outgrew the boat (sigh), but my daughter LOVES it. I'm lucky.)
I then paddled a dozen boats across several dealer-sponsored "demo-days", settling on a small dealer's offerings. I discovered a used high-end Kevlar kayak they had consigned, and scarily wobbled my way around in it. After several short attemps over a week I decided to trust this dealer and made the leap, spending nearly twice as much, but on $3k+ kayak. He assured me that I wouldn't outgrow the boat for several years at least, etc. If it hadn't been for all the careful handholding I wouldn't have been able to take advantage of such an opportunity, and would have bought another "intermediate step" boat, to be perhaps quickly outgrown.
All along, the dealer knew he would have to nearly match on-line offerings from other shops around the country, but simply persisted in working with me to meet my as-yet-unknown-to-me REAL needs! That's the greatness of personal care. I personally experience this weekly when I watch a smile start to crease the face of a naive Toyota or Honda owner as I teach them to push an AWD Subaru with a bit of throttle-steer through serpentine roads. The assuredness and enpowering feel is addictive, and a long marriage is set. I of course know that my prospective customers have other options, especially given the temptations of low-interest financing of new cars, etc., but attention to detail in thorough product preparation and carefully meeting customers' expressed AND anticipated needs rewards both parties with success. Relationships are built on trust and transparency. Cheers.