how to include the subwoofer?

I'd go with your last choice - separate x-over. If the high pass filter in your DD12 is the same as the one in my Velodyne SMS-1 controller - and I believe that it is - it ain't great. It subjects the main signal path to A/D/A processing and has a fixed turnover and slope. By contrast the low pass is incredibly flexible and IMO the A/D/A is much less objectionable way down there in the deep bass.

I use an NHT x-2 x-over to feed my SMS. It works like a charm, is inaudible (to my ear) AND it's inexpensive, to boot.

BTW, even though your main speakers have decent bass extension, you should experiment with crossing over at 80, 100, and 120 hz. This will allow the DRC in your sub to do its thing. I suspect you will be amazed by the improvement in sound.

Good Luck.

Marty

I recommended experimenting with higher x-over frequencies because my experience with room issues has usually revealed the most audible problems lie between 50hz and 150hz, especially 80ish to 120ish . These are pretty common and usually very, very audible.

I use bass busters which are pretty effective at knocking out the hump between 80hz and 120hz in my current room. I cross at app. 75hz and the DRC in the SMS-1 does the rest. Without bassbusters, I'd start at 120hz to judge the effects of the DRC, then directly compare the sound to a much lower, audiophile approved x-over point. You may be surprised.

Note: if you use bass busters (or similar treatments), you can probably safely cross as low as 70hz - 80hz and get most of the benefit of DRC in the DD subwoofer. If you cross any lower, the DRC won't get a crack at the worst nasties in the room.

Marty

Marty -- yes thanks, your thoughts are very similar to mine. And in fact, with my previous pre-amp, I used the Velodyne exaclty as you noted -- by setting the crossover higher and having it reinforce the speakers output below 100 hz, I got better bass, and was able to use the parametric eq in the sub to smooth out the bass response. My problem is that the Nagra is a wonderful piece but for it's lack of output options. I've been pretty happy running the speakers full range, and the SMS unit built into the Velodyne confirms that, properly tweaked, I've got a nice flat response (except for one null at about 165 hz that I can't do anything about). So the crossover, while interesting, is largely a glorified output doubler. I am not convinced the NHT unit will be inaudible (based on some inquiries I've made in this respect) in my system, but it's not all that expensive an experiment to try.

looks like you already know the dd12 has a great interface allowing for some fantastic dialing in of the bottom end. if you take the time (many hours in my case), it can end up sounding pretty darn good.

i'm in an similar situation as you and chose the rca amp to dd12 route. didn't want to complicate/add stuff to the system/path of separates i just upgraded to. i actually tried to go without a pre altogether but my system sounds better with one. regardless... got the results i wanted while keeping it simple with the dd12.

i think the key here for me(us?) is the sub's background use and wanting to "round out the bottom octave". my 3 painstakingly customized pre-sets vary in volume from 16 too 22. this on a scale of 100 or 150 i believe, so i'm barely using the thing. just a little bottom end fill for the most part. i'm not using mine to "create" bottom end. just giving it a little bump instead.

Martykl: you're spot on regarding the 80-120 hot spots. mine was at about 85-100. set the dd12 x-over to 93 and it helped flatten it out fine (along with some other fine adjustments).

i'd try simple first and see how it goes. you can always add gear later. good luck.

cheers
Lev

Thanks Lev. Yes my volume settings on the DD12 are right where yours are. From a volume perspective it is "barely being used" but that little bit of volume does great things for the sound (after a lot of time getting the parameters tweaked properly).