how much of a difference should equipment make?


I spent the last few months looking for a good sounding 2 channel setup and this is what I ended up with:

McIntosh C50 Preamp
McIntosh MC275 Amp (VI)
SF Cremona M
Audioquest King Cobra XLR
Audioquest Carbon USB
Audioquest Rockefeller SW

Let me just get this out of the way and say it up front.. While the speakers (and their placement in my room) seemed to make a huge difference, the amp, preamp, and cables do not seem to make any discernable difference to me or my wife.

I feel like I have purchased the C50/MC275 due to a combination of the integrated DAC, aesthetics, heritage, level of support, and resale value.

We compared several options at home and in high end audio shops.. For example, in one store, I got to listen to the Cremona M's through a pair of MC1.2kw+C2300+AyreQB9 and then immediately following that, the C50 paired with a single MC275. I really wanted to hear a difference, but nothing. In the same store, I was also able to listen to a Music Fidelity M6 and luxman 550AX connected to the same speakers.

I brought home a demo of a luxman 550AX integrated and an MA6600 McIntosh integrated and did several days of A/B testing with the Cremona M's and we could not detect a difference at all. I tried to make sure that decibel levels were matched by playing a test tone and using an SPL meter.

I am using Jriver with ASIO with a variety of music off of hdtracks.. the music is being sent to the DAC in the C50 via audioquest carbon USB cable in bit perfect asynchronous mode.

I checked the MC275 manual and McIntosh recommends 12AWG wire. When I had a pair of audioquest type 4 connected (which was only 16 AWG), we did detect a small improvement when moving to the 12 gauge Rockeller wires. I did not test any cheaper speaker wire. This was the only time that I heard something other than the speakers make an audible difference.

I was also able to compare a peachtree iDAC and Ayre DAC at my home and I did not detect much (if any) difference between the DAC built in to the C50. I do have the latest firmware.

I heard huge differences when cross shopping speakers and doing A/B tests in stores.. for example, B&W 802D seemed to have much more 'oomph' on the low end, but lacked some midrange and high vocal clarity. It felt a bit like voices were not 'tight' compared to the Sonus Faber line. I listened to a pair of SF Elipsa and they sounded similar to the Cremona M but a bit more 'full'. As if the depth of the sound stage increased and also the bass had a bit more impact.

Although I do not hear any difference in preamp/amp/cabling, it does not mean that a difference does not exist. I am not trying to insult anyone here.. it may just be that the combinations of equipment that I have tried are still somehow 'lacking'.

My questions are as follows....:

1) Is it normal to not hear much (or any??) difference when changing out preamps or amps assuming the components in question are within similar specs?

2) Has anyone else purchased relatively expensive amp/preamp combinations even when you believe the components are not making a difference in the sound quality?

3) Placement and angle of my speakers in my room make almost as much of a difference as the brand and model of the speaker - at least to me. Anyone else have this experience?

4) What am I doing wrong that is leading to not hearing a difference?

I do not believe my ears are at fault.. My wife and friends were with me throughout most of my testing and they came to the same conclusions.

In any event, my setup at home sounds great to me and rivals (again, to my ear) most everything I have heard in audio stores.

Thanks,
ecsrun
The very best article I have read about system enhancement is on the Walker Audio site. Simple, and straight-forward.

http://walkeraudio.com/evaluating-components/
Michael (Swampwalker), thanks for noticing that. My first response indeed addressed the claim in Peter's preceding post that:
When you go from a damping factor of up to 500 and compare that to an amp with 1000 or more, you're talking about audible extension of another full octave on the bottom end.
However, my second response also applied to the somewhat revised assertion in his subsequent post that:
The amps I have with df 0f 1000 do indeed produce discernible notes a full octave lower than the others. The others have the extension alright, but notes are not articulately discernible.
Regarding Peter's response to that post:
So I'm assuming (guessing) that that effective df of 20 is more likely to be achieved with an amp that has a very high published capability?
The reference by Atmasphere to a damping factor of 20 refers to the damping factor of the amplifier itself.
I don't have a lot of experience with tubes but they do have a reputation for soft, muddy inarticulate bass.
Note that I referred to high quality tube amps. Certainly many of them, having damping factors of less than 10, can produce extremely good full-range bass with many high quality essentially full-range speakers. Just peruse the system descriptions here at A'gon for evidence of that.
Given that the speaker sees far less actual damping than what the amp itself produces, does it not stand to reason that practically, the more the amp is capable of, the more the speaker will effectively see regardless of what is accurately representative in numbers?
In the case of a dynamic speaker, the combination of crossover inductor resistance and speaker cable resistance will be much greater than the 0.016 ohm amplifier output impedance which, as I previously indicated, corresponds to an amplifier damping factor of 500. If the amplifier damping factor is increased to 1000:

(a)The overall damping factor will therefore only be increased by a very small amount.
(b)The DF 500 amplifier already provides a DF that is way more than adequate, per Atmasphere's statements and per the results that a great many people have obtained with tube (and other) amplifiers having very low DF.
(c)Even if 500 DF were not already beyond the point of overkill, its effects on overall DF would be so miniscule as to provide no basis for a presumption that a perception of better defined bass with a 1000 DF amplifier is in fact due to the difference in DF.
Are you suggesting that an ss amp capable of optimally controlling the speaker will have a downside effectively cancelling out it's benefit?
No, I am suggesting that once the DF is high enough to optimally control the speaker further increases in DF will not control it any more optimally. Whether or not further increases in DF will have significant downsides depends on the particular design.

Best regards,
-- Al
In that case my experience is only coincidental or it is all just in my head. What other factors are in play regarding bass definition?
What other factors are in play regarding bass definition?
In addition to the distortion-related issues I mentioned earlier, the quality of the power supply design certainly figures to be a significant factor. In part because a great deal of the energy in most music tends to occur in the bass region. In part also because it is not uncommon for the impedance of dynamic speakers to reach low magnitudes at some frequencies in the bass region, and to also have significantly capacitive phase angles at some frequencies in that region. Each of those factors can be hard for many amplifiers to handle without adverse sonic effects, and even more so if they both occur at the same frequencies.

Best regards,
-- Al
My understanding is the benefits of higher damping is also speaker
dependant. Some speakers are more naturally damped thmselves. Also
speakers that are tube friendly also tend to have higher input impedance.