I made a post recently on Lenco Lovers about my fancy new CD player having sonically bypassed my Lenco (in my vintage living room system). Well over the weekend, I finally rewired my Sonus arm with the Cardas wire and purple sattelite wire (Thanks Jean and Mario) - and as you probably already expect, the Lenco is comfortably back in front.
What I did not expect was that rewiring would make the music more accessible. As happenstance would have it, I had a few uncleaned second hand records close to the table when I got the arm finished and put back on. I put on Ray Charles "Genius + Jazz = Soul". This sonically OK sounding record (Impulse) not only sounded great but for the first time I was able to understand what Ray Charles intended using the Hammond organ on this record. I must have heard this record for the first time 25 or 30 years ago in the college library, and it always sounded to me like a vaguely lame attempt by Ray Charles to use the B3 just because it was popular. However, after rewiring the Sonus and using a Ortofon VMS20Super MM, I realize now that Ray was not trying to copy the popular B3 sound of other famous players - to my mind, he was going for the same type of mildly distorted staccato sound he eventually got from the Fender Rhodes electric piano.
Cool, no?
Hi Grant - who knew? Will try LP records presently.
Mike |
Nice job Jean!
Fascinated as usual, I went to the web and found that most tables using a ceramic bearing do not have the hard steel thrust plate or anything like the the dimpled pads like we have on the Lenco. The thrust pads were:
- bronze thrust plate with a "soft" ceramic bearing. (the Kokomo 401 bearing kit on ebay)
- ceramic ball running on a ceramic thrust plate. Project TT
- ceramic ball riding on a hybrid alloy bearing pad (bronze, I assume). Monaco TT
- Inverted sapphire disc/ceramic ball bearing for low noise and long wear (Forgot who, becides I just gave away all my sapphire and diamond discs :0)
So it seems like a bronze thrust plate may the other part of the puzzle for use of a ceramic bearing.
Something else tweaked my attention during my search - someone claimed that they "decouple" the bearing shaft from the bearing itself. Fitting a (very) small o-ring on the concave end of the bearing shaft might be very interesting. A thorough cleaning and couple of drops of super glue might be necessary to keep it in place.
So, Jean - what is the new cleaning process?
Mike |
Hey Jean,
One thing I know about practically anything new mentioned on Salvatore's site, I wont be able to afford it :) I am glad we already own the uber table, HA!
Speaking of clamps, I have never been able to come to a conclusion about using a clamp on the Lenco. My latest clamp adventure is the old Sumiko crystal record weight - looks cool, has strobe markings, etc., but no cigar. Never the less, I have a piece of African black wood I plan to make into a simple weight. I realized something in regard to Lencos and clamps - all the ones I have tried have a soft substrate between the weight and the record label. Note that clamps like the new Harmonix clamp have an exotic wood substrate between the weight of the clamp and the record. I throw that out there for thought and comment.
Mike |
Speaking of vintage speakers, I still like my Dynaco's in my vintage living room system. However, I finally heard something that just didnt sound good on this system - a bass heavy Bill Laswell Axiom number. It left me pining for my 211's and some high endy speakers. Which brings me to my new speakers - 15" ATC woofer, 6.5" Accuton mid and Raven 2 tweeter. I will be posting pics soon.
Speaking of pics Jean, how about some pics of the 100 lb super jumbo jet Lenco - as well as some underside pics of the glassed-in Lenco??? If nothing else, get one of those Walmart disposable film cameras. Inquiring minds want to see!
Naturally, we are all quitely confident that much ass will be kicked in this contest vs the upstairs crowd :)
Mike |
Very interesting - and even handed too. Who ever said that this thread was all about hyperbole? :) I can vouch for the fact that a cartridge that needs to be loaded at 47K sounds terrible at 1K or lower - killing the air. So, in a way, the results are even more impressive.
Jean, are you considering anything special for Peter's plate - in terms of material?
I just ordered Trans-fi's Terminator - due any day now - and was thinking of making a dedicated plinth. My two arm plinth (a mix of mdf, birch ply and drywall) continues to fight me all the way - now the stain wont dry. Boo Hoo. Pics soon to come.
Mike |
I had never heard that HP recommends 47K but I have always wondered about folks that say that such and such a cartridge sounds better loaded at 50 ohms or 100 ohms. They always sound better to me at 47K - I even built a fancy resistor switching scheme into my preamp but after the first few tries, I never used it again. It makes me wonder if the loading down an MC is something that works in bright (SS) systems.
Mike |
Ok, I have been following this. Are we talking about slate over plywood/mdf or just a slate (only) plinth?
Has anyone actually worked slate with woodworking tools? The only web reference that I found recommended a jigsaw.
Finally I would hope that anyone cutting slate at home is wearing a mask - I remember seeing something on TV about silicosis or miner's lung disease - which appeared as soon as miners began using steam powered drills. I recall that some miners went down after as few as 2 or 3 days on the drill.
Mike
PS: Wait 'til you see my new speakers :) |
Am I the only one who has read the reviews of the big SME tables that almost uniformly say that they are dry and uninvolving?
Rick is obviously a well healed and experienced audiophile and I respect his opinion in the context of his post but I dont see the reason to go off in a huff. He likes what he likes but that doesn't mean that he is correct - audiophile detail vs wooly musicality... How should systems sound? Like you are sitting on the bandstand or in row "m".
Anyhow it must have killed Jean to kowtow in print as much as he did :) Good for character building :)
Mike |
HI Lewm, I missed the last sentance of your post. Sorry to take off on your point.
After re-reading Ricks post, I see that he didnt really leave in a huff, he just declined to continue and in a fairly gentlemanly way too. Maybe he mistook Jean's unflagging enthusiam for the Lenco as using his turntable as a whipping boy.
All in all, it is great fun and almost laughable that a Lenco sitting on a big hunk of wood can even be spoken of in the same breath as a highly engineered $30K audio product.
Mike |
Sounds pretty cool. I love my vintage living room system, and on a smaller scale, I also really like my Advent table radio in the work shop - it's amazing how they were able to get early SS to sound like tubes. But at the same time, early SS instrument amps sounded like crap. (I had a Standel once, with a 15" JBL.)
Lenco news: Whew! I have finally finished another Lenco. Not new - but a rebuild of Lenco #1 with the L59. I added another layer of MDF, a new finish and wait for it... a Trans-fi Terminator tonearm. Just did a rough set up yesterday for the first listen. My expansion tank is leaking (not sealed yet) and I didnt feel like doing all the leveling necessary for a linear tracker, so I could only listen to half a side but what I heard was very encouraging :) Pics to come.
Mike |
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Hey Al, et al,
Read the review of the Trans-fi Terminator on Enjoy the Music. The reviewer makes the point that it costs about the same as a souped up Rega but is in a higher league, sound-wise.
My newish system seems to be coming together all at once and with the Terminator, I got the most transparent sound out of this system so far. Also, the stuff about enhanced bass is no joke.
Mike |
It sounds very good - not elegant - but then, we aint millionaires.
I havent had a lot of listening time and only used a Ortofon MM - but it sounds awesome. I have to try MC's including Satin and other MM's. I found the M15e Super to be a little "polite" after hearing a Stanton 888, which itself seemed to have a somewhat overblown treble. Pics - tonite.
Mike |
Just posted a pic of my newest Lenco - a rebuild of my Lenco #1 with a Trans-Fi Terminator arm. All I did was add another layer of MDF on the bottom and beveled the top edge a la Francois. Its refinished it in clear shellac and wax.
I was exited by the review of the Trans-Fi Terminator on Enyoy the Music. Aside from the real world price, my rationale for getting one has a lot to do with the going prices of vintage tonearms. Why bid on one of those elderly, possibly worn-out arms when something that is potentially better than ALL arms (up to a price) is available? Even after only a very few hours, it sounds at least as good as any tonearm I have - that includes 12" VPI and SME. And I havent even tried any MC's yet.
It's still early days, but I am not sure I have heard bass like this out of any tonearm. Just to be clear, my system is a little bass heavy - the last thing I would want is more wooly upper and mid bass. As a matter of fact, I was a little worried about this after reading he review but this is clear, low, articulate bass that does not interfere with the other registers.
Mike |
It's Mario!
I did the leg work on the compressor - I use a pump called Dolphin 5 Star. Find it here: http://www.kensfish.com/diaphramairpumps.html
It looks just like a rebadged version of the pump Vic uses. Over $50 at Petco; $21 at the website above.
I did use the gas can - I got one that looks just like Vics - only mine is for gallons, his is for liters :) Note that I had trouble finding the barbed hose fittings. I finally found something close locally - the barb is the same but the screw end is bigger.
Vic sent me two spacers and several washers. I assume he was calculating for an L75 as opposed to the L59. With the Ortofon, I only need one.
Mike |
Only by the specs Mumford. By spec, the Dolphin appears to be the exact same pump that Vic uses. The Rena AFAIK, is not adjustable. At $21, what's to worry? At that price, I consider this pump to be disposable if it works for more than a year.
Mike |
Gee willikers, Jean, I forgot what you asked me after reading all that! Maybe I will move to Canada to be able to buy some of that cool used stereo gear!
I remember those technics speakers.
Can anyone remember how everybody thought the Japanese were crazy with all those bright, trebly sounding speakers? What kind of crap are they trying to foist off on us - we used to wonder? What we didnt know was that many of those 70's - 80's Japanese speakers were voiced for tubes - when most of us had the latest Kenwood or Sansui SS seperates.
As to the Terminator it has been down for a while - I installed a new rack and set up a marble/acrylic sandwich on my TT rack, like Jean. I just got it situated again yesterday. After finally quieting the pump - I can say, just as Vic claims, there is no hiss or air noise, even with your mug right in front of the table while it is running.
Also, remember that the Terminator's claim to fame is the lightened, shortened arm assembly. Vic represents it as a happy accident but it may be that this design feature - somewhat like the Lenco itself, brilliant engineering; industrially executed for cost’s sake – makes the Terminator an arm that may actually be in the running for sounding the best, or at least as good as the best, in sonic certain parameters. Given, of course that almost noone claims that any one arm is the best at everything.
I will be posting more on the Terminator when I get it perfectly setup again. (I didnt lock it down when I moved the table.) Also, I have yet to try anything but a Ortofon M15e super on it.
Also, as if I wasnt obnoxious enough, I am building an LCR RIAA preamp! :)
Mike |
John, you will never know what the EAR is capable of without modifying it. The PV7 and 8 are what they are - short of tube rolling - but the EAR is capable of far more than what is in the little black box. I meant to sell mine several times but always forgot. Then, after reading some of Romy the Cat's guff one day (his "end of life" - Russian for "best and final" - phono pre is based on the 839P), I decided to try Thorsten's mods - including the air variable caps (actually radio tuning vanes - in this case, the dielectric is air as opposed to teflon or poly). The air caps are usable in this unit because the RIAA cap values are so small.
The best way to describe the outcome is that everything you like about the EAR - DOUBLE IT! Better output caps and an improved power supply with better diodes and bigger caps are the main modifications. You can easily do the mods without the air caps, BTW - they were so over the top I couldn't resist. If this thing was Stereophile Class B before - it is easily Class A now and I still haven't ever gotten around to putting an MC through it.
Thorsten's mods can be found in one post on the Audio Asylum and recently, Romy's own forum shows pics of how he implemented the air caps and his final circuit modifications.
Mike |
I can dig it - I loved the 500C at first - but then after a while, missed the seeming perfection of single ended. In reality though, if you love listening to something, how can it be wrong?
Nevertheless, many people describe the stock EAR as being tooby and euphonic. I seem to remember the stock EI tibes playing it pretty straight compared to Telefunkens and other NOS tubes. Am I right in assuming that both of the CJ's have old tubes in them and the EAR has the stockers? Could account greatly for the difference. I find that all new production 12AX7's sound pretty lowsy and changing them out for NOS makes a huge amount of difference in the natural sound of hifi or instrument amps.
The modifications described above, take the EAR to a level far above a simple tube change - think natural timbres and all the other audiophile cliches while retaining the tube warmth and utter listenability of the stock unit.
Mike |
Heh, heh, heh...
I have tried all sorts of tubes in the EAR. If I tried a 5751, I dont remember - but I settled on a compliment of tubes sorted from my big box if nos 12A-- types. I think I saw a 5751 on my desk the other day - I'll pop it in and see what it does.
BTW - I always wanted to try a PV7, it has the reputation of making everything sound good. Of course, in our perverse audiofool ways, this has to be wrong because we know that all records do NOT sound good, so away with euphonic components that FORCE us to enjoy the music! :)
IN any case, I have come to two conclusions about vintage gear: 1) Those old tube era engineers really knew what they were doing and did many seemingly simple things, circuit wise, that have profound sonic results and 2) The carbon comp resistors used in almost all pre-70's electronics (the little brown ones) have a humanizing sound that is integral to the pleasing sound of vintage gear. Call it a pleasant distortion if you like. They are not used much in highend gear these days because of their self noise and tendency to drift.
Mike |
COme on Jean, I've got a bar of soap bigger than that "ultra-Lenco" - no, wait... :)
Just kidding, that thing looks cool - very sixties pastel color. What is that "washing machine green"? We had sinks all over the house that color when I was a kid. There is something about the painted plinth and the white Lenco that is very sucessful style-wise - I like the blue one too.
AS far as coupling caps, I took a flyer on a pair of Mundorf silver in oil for the EAR. They, like your balancing of the tube types, are an excellent compliment to the EAR. Bypassing the volume pot gave another easy step up in quality - however, you many remember the trouble it gave me with MM's - there was so much gain that it caused distortion into my preamp. I ended up bypassing the pot with a suitable voltage divider.
Mike |
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I know you have someone to ask re the voltage divider :) Just two resistors to take the place of the pot - TECHNICAL! :0)
The weak bass on the PV7 "may" just be small output caps meant to cut-off low frequencies - warp and wow, etc. I would be very careful about playing with RIAA caps though. Maybe there is an upgrade thread somewhere on the web.
The LCR - on the other hand - is supposed to be the most transparent and have the most realistic timbre of any phono stage - supposedly. I also suppose the owners of Bolder and Walker might disagree, but Wavac was selling them for like $12 large so I guess they had to be doing someing right.
It will be interesting to see how listenable it is.
Mike |
If you love the PV7 so much - why not send the PV8 for the overhaul and then compare? I have had vintage gear sound completely different after replacing a few parts.
Are you saying that Spectral will fix the Sony V-fet components?
I agree there is nothing like real music to break the spell of most hi-fi gear. Have you ever noticed how loud real instruments can be, yet they dont seem hurt your ears?
Mike |
Hey, makes sense. Isn't moving fun :) I do envy you having access to all that vintage gear.
I'll give a holler re the 5751 in my EAR. Right now I am concentrating on the new LCR pre. The wood working takes comparitively forever. I finished the circuit boards in one day. A Wavac LCR phono pre went up for sale here at Audiogon a few days back - $12K, used!
Mike |
Hey everybody!
Per Jean, I tried the 5751 in my EAR phono pre over the weekend. Surprisingly, it was a discernable upgrade. I say surprising because AFAIK, the 5751 is just a low noise 12AX7 but it gave the following benefits: stronger lower treble and clearer upper mids. This had the effect of increasing detail w/o adding any treble bite and increasing the PRAT. Maybe - just maybe, lost a little bass, I cant tell yet. In any case, that would probably be a plus in my system.
Mike |
Thanks Lew - I looked at the spec sheet. Amplification factor of 70 as opposed to 100 for the 12AX7. You are right, GE's spec sheet doesnt say anything about low-noise, the 5751 is for "rigorous duty", i.e., a missle tube. Nevertheless, on first impression, it does sound good.
Mike |
Hello Jean!
Can you describe "just so" a little more in realtion to tightening the direct coupling screws and the plinth screws?
I myself have finally got a MC (Ruby 2) set up on my Trans-fi Terminator/L59. Its a different kind of awesomeness than the MMs I have been listening to. I just refurbished my Loesch MC preamp in anticipation of a soon coming showdown with the almost built S&B LCR RIAA preamp. TIME... TIME ... I need more TIME!!! (I only have to dummy up the PS.)
Mike |
Wow, that is truly a shame to loose Lenco Lovers. I know people are nuts but I can quite comprehend why some one would take the time. When I got Peter's email I immediately went to the Internet Archive - oddly the last back up of the Lenco Lovers site appears to have been Jan 08 (IIRC).
Can somebody point out where to upload any technical files we might on our hard drives to the proboards site?
On an up note - I am still moving slowly (glacially) on my LCR RIAA preamp, but it passed the smoke test last week. I forgot to wire up the pots on the heaters. When I do that this week, I will set it up on the rack for the first listen.
Mike |
Hey everybody!
Been so busy that I never built another Lenco after the last one I posted more than 2 years ago.
Congrats Jean! The "hype and spittle" becomes OFFICIAL INTERNET REALITY! AT LAST! LOL! HOOORAYYYYYYY!
I for one am also waiting with baited breath to hear the technical details of Arthur's "Lenocius Canadius".
Mike |
Congrats,
SWEET VICTORY!
I am inspired to build two more Lencos.
Mike |
My effusive congratulations above were an unsuccessful attempt (so far) at goading Jean into spilling the beans regarding the new innovations he incorporated into A. Salvatore’s “Super Canuck” Lenco :)
Ulterior motives aside, I’ve had some time to get my thoughts together to say a few words about what Jean’s unflagging boosterism of the Lenco has meant to some of us in the stereo hobby. It just so happens that I have been doing a little research of late about SS phono pre’s – having noted that there is a new crop of expensive “state of the art” preamps being flogged on the various discussion groups. In doing that search, I visited a number of audio websites that I hadn’t been to for several years. It seems like folks everywhere are extolling the virtues of $10K+ turntables, $5K cartridges, $5K arms and the like! These are not even considered to be the best available – just “very good”. That’s an embarrassing amount of money to spend on a “hobby”. Who has that kind of cash these days, anyhow?
So, in steps Jean Nantais – the fellow who popularized his own sonic RE-discovery that has allowed some regular folks in these days to actually own at least one hi-fi component that might very well be the best – or a least counted among the best, i.e., the BIG BODY LENCO. He pointed it out to us and even told us how to re-build it and pretty much asked for nothing in return. And yet, what I have always seen as good natured magnanimity has, over the years, been derided by some naysayers as opinionated self-promotion.
Sometimes I wonder why guys do it – put their audio discoveries on the internet for all and sundry freely partake of – only to have envious weasels who have never contributed anything take pot shots at them. Anyhow, hats off to Jean for not simply taking his toys and going home.
You can look at my system and see that a Lenco rebuild was right down my alley and still is a “no brainer” for me. Put in a few bucks for raw materials and few hours of work and WHAMMO! - an audio component that can compete at the leading edge. The Lenco was by far the easiest of my major DIY projects - if you cant rebuild a Lenco, you shouldn’t be trusted around a toaster and a butter knife :) (Speaking of my system, hopefully I will be making some online updates soon. Admittedly, I have been in that phase where, after getting a very good CD player, I haven’t been spinning too many records in the last couple of years. Probably my analog rig has gotten a little too technical, so I plan to do some simplification.)
Finally, there are two amazing things to consider about the Lenco discovery – one that the performance of a refurbished 40 year old Lenco on a big slab of wood can be even be compared a modern state-of-the-art TT in any regard - and two, that is still possible to buy a stock Lenco for a few hundred bucks.
I am glad that I got in early.
Mike |
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HEY! You better not leave before spilling some beans :)
Mike |
It seems like the plinth is still evolving. I asked a question on Lenco Heaven recently regarding making a plinth out of hardwood only - and there was/is speculation that Jean might be making his plinths like that now. Salvator's plinth looked like solid Oak - but maybe it was just solid wood over the traditional mdf/ply sandwich. I, for one, would like to talk about that.
Then there are at least three guys making or planning new bearings for the Lenco. I have two on order from Jeremy from Lenco Heaven.
Finally, I saw something the other day that peaked my curiosity: Garage-a-Records is selling an archival turntable with a delrin platter. It occurred to me that it would be really cool to experiment with the platter alone on a Lenco base.......
BTW: I just built a three arm Lenco G99 which I pretty-fied by painting it white - pics soon in my system.
Mike |
Hi,
I'm responding to a BAT SIGNAL. Did anybody see an awesome tweak posted anywhere around here?
Mike |
I am about to diy the spring mod. I was going to wait for the all-out "MC" Lenco I have on the drawing board, but after talking to John I decided to try it on my current "MM" Lenco that is on my bench right now. I will be able to compare it to the elastic "spring" I was using.
Pics to follow.
Went to Whalemart :) yesterday to find my fishin' waits and stuff... If everything works out, I will be listenin' later today.
BTW: I have designed a ultra deluxe, shock absorbing version of this mod that we may see later... :0)
Mike |
Finally had a chance to listen to the spring mod.
Hey,
First impressions;
Using a 42 gram weight. Greater space between instruments = lower noise floor, VTA adjustments easier to hear. Improved macro dynamics, slightly wider stage, slightly better bass, improved layering.
Mike |
Eleakist,
Us low-lifes "caught up in the usual group exchanges" hear the same thing as you :) As reported.
Mike |
I used 42 g - thats about 1.5 OZ. A guy on Lenco Heaven said that he tested the original spring pull at ~35g. My system is sounding amazing with this tweak in place + direct coupling and brass feet.
I was kind of dumbfounded at first - waiting for a downside that hasnt appeared.
Mike |
