Clarity cap MR
Well its the best cap made period, for the price none will come close.. A Vcap with 400 hours on it will probably sound 95% similar.. out of the box these bad boys are all there! Unreal soundstage, earth cracking huge, vast, tight and clear bass
Vocals are full and dynamic without a hint of glare. Highs are silk, better than the oil caps in my opinion even, how did they do it? I have no clue, some caps are best in certain locations or frequency ranges, this is the best Full range wide open cap I have heard.. I was very worried that they would need some substantial burn in to clear up, or have lower glare and distortion, they don't need anything.. They are what I consider for the price of about 60 bucks a 1 uF cap, perfect. My previous caps in my tube amps and preamps before.. Yes they were all in the same equipment and changed out over the years
Warning the MR clarity caps are HUGE and HEAVY
1- my equipment came with Auricaps "So so"
2- Cardas caps, very nice, a little rolled off, but as good as any teflon caps
3- Mundorf Silver oils, excellent with highs and mids, bass was a bit too soft
4- Sonicap platinums, might be slightly better than the cardas, definitely better bass than the mundorfs, also a really good bypass cap. Take forever to burn in however..
5- Dynamicap (TRT Wondercaps) A little too emphasized and zippy, but if you need to pep up some tubes these can help.. These were not bad on their own, and pretty good in speaker applications, but benifited very good from sonicap bypasses above.. I have used these in both electronics and speakers as with all the above caps.
6- Jantzen superior, best cost to sonic ratio also with best voltage handling to most of the above, for the price these kill the cardas type caps which are not cheap, and are similar but better, they don't take much to burn in, they are a tiny bit fuzzy compared to some of the teflons, but still very natural, distortion is bettered with a good teflon bypass cap making these a bit more "Solid" sounding.. They have the best bass out of the above caps as well as very extended highs.
7- Finally the Clarity CAp MR
For the price, build quality, and incredible sonic response, these are not beat.. Zero need to mix with some other cap to try and re-balance something, absolutely the best out of the box caps as well.. And they play nice with others, ZERO compression in the sound, Best darkest background and just depth, no doubt this is a worldclass cap, I can believe these for the money will probably beat out the V-cap types without question and are available in way bigger values than the v-caps
I would look no further than these if you want all of what these exotic caps claim like the Mundorf Gold Oils, and the v-caps, even the duelunds. These will work out the kinks in even the most critical applications I truly believe and thats not just because I am now using them.
I have not heard the caps in a speaker like all the others above, however I can say I doubt they will not perform to the highest in that application as I have them running full range single caps right now handling virtually the entire signal feeding all my other caps in the system which are 100% Jantzen superiors, I dumped all the others. I am going to back them with a Duelund VSF in a crossover, this will be a world class mix..
My opinion, best cheap but not too cheap caps are the Jantzen superiors for sure, no contest even with the caps 4 and 5 times the price in the ones I have experienced, the MR's are that final just put it on cruise control level however, they do nothing but perfect.. Who knows once they burn in, but this is the first ones I have heard that I don't even care!!! Much like how some believe the duelunds off the bat are just better from the instant satisfaction. And Zero regrets on the money spent vs. some of the above which get questionable. |
Oh forgot to mention the Jensen Oil Copper caps.. Reason is they are not worth mentioning... That should tell you enough, very fuzzy, very boring. I know they make the dulunds, but obviously a totally different design. |
Volleyguy
Yep.. A full on no holds barred crossover will cost more than the raw price of some speakers.. But everytime I have done it, was worth more than speakers costing 3 times more, just do the crossover and your 1000 dollar pair will be easily in competition with a 5000 dollar pair from my experience. Also one thing you did not mention, not only the parts cost and building is a pain to be professional about it, but they will not fit with these kinda parts in any speaker really, you then need to do external crossovers, redoing much wiring, and other issues to get the bi-wire or tri-wire setup to the outboard crossovers.. So this method is only for the hardcore, if you get involved be prepared! |
I don't know about Linn speakers.. I honestly just put forward an example of a 1 k pair
Yeah sure I could see the linns if they are that good with better parts being on par with something in the 10 k range, why not? Thats all it takes, I mean speakers in my opinion from the range of somewhere in 1 or 2 k a pair up to 25,000 all have good drivers, anything in between is mostly effected with results from better cabinets and damping, and the crossover network or lack of network, so for sure the better a passive network, or NO passive network and running a full range driver, or Active crossover system as you are looking at should in fact be better. What amazes me about klipsch which I mentioned on another thread here is their new Palladium series.. For 20,000 dollars are WAY out of their element, and they use Bennic crossovers, I have seen the pictures of them, that speaker would destroy with a better network for sure, again it has to fit in the cabinet, and of course klipsch will only put in about 50 bucks a crossover not 500 because their profit is very high then. |
Yes the crossover is excessively weak for a 20 k speaker was my point... Klipsch making anything in that range might be way out of their element in my opinion :-) |
I believe the guy you speak of is on this site, and on another thread saw the new pricing of 20 k vs. 15 k originally projected for the palladiums and said thats way to much now and I assume maybe went back to the more realistic priced speaker.. I could be wrong, might be a different guy I don't know. |
I agree the less passive components the better, and also the less parts, the more expensive ones can take over the spot and have better effect. Your linns have some very large values, and too many components for sure, especially in 3 way speakers the midrange circuits get complex and costly for the most part. I would not take on a design like that unless your made of time, money, and space to really maximize your passive crossover upgrade. |
It would seem that the Duelund would have more effect with solid state since it breaks up the harder edged sound.. So my guess is simply you have a bad match of a SS amp for Klipsch, which is very easy to do
Use a Mcintosh or Monarchy audio SS Class A amp and you will hear the difference, at least feeding the SS with a Tube preamp is almost mandatory for Klipsch or any horns in general. |
Or buy the clarity cap MR's... They beat them all from what I have heard, they are poly |
Volleyguy
I would almost give you my own personal money back guarantee on this one.. However I have not heard the MR in every application, but from what I can tell with educated guess, and ears on how most of these caps react, the MR is indeed a very different and special cap, and for the money can not be matched that much I can tell you. Hey if your already going nuts on spending what you have in caps, this is really the final stop for you anyway if you are really looking for that next level, that or the V-Caps which I don't suggest and still cost like 4 times the price of the Claritys and don't even make the larger values! |
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I have tried the Clarity MR by the way... So I did report back a few posts back. |
Hifisoundguy
Nope. And I think they already went right back out of business even though that ad is from 2007 that you see in your link, from my understanding with some being sold off in bulk to whoever will use them.. I remember something about counterpoint using these exact caps for years and all at some point within a few years would many times just fail and need to be replaced, hence the guy that was counterpoint started that altavista site or whatever to actually do upgrades and start removing all these. |
Volleyguy
You answered your own question... If you believe in the microphonics created by the inside of the cap elements effecting sound, once again Clarity Cap MR seems to have made a BIG difference and effective sonic benefit from this. They are brand new to the market, and of course will take a while to gain some steam, but I got a feeling these will do mostly all of this including vintage sound for the best pricing now after experiencing them in a critical location vs. several of the other caps we are talking about that I have owned here. |
Volleyguy
Again the Clarity MR is super fast, linear, balanced, and simply the most perfect cap I have heard yet.. I have now tested them being in the main output caps vs. the several above into a rather raw and harsh horn system between me and a friend of mines reference series.. These are an excellent Zero bad effect cap. however they will not cover anything up..
So bottom line, Good silent components are needed, the MR will make every noise come to life, they are super transparent so if you got hiss or whatever these will just let it right thru true to the signal. These are far better than any of the mundorfs I have tried so mundorf is at best for a good tweeter, or midrange circuit, they are not the best in Bass for a full range signal or woofer in my opinion. Silvers are not anyway, maybe the standard supremes are better in bass as you seem to claim, but nothing has touched the MR in lower freq's as of yet minus the Jantzens being very close, but not nearly as clean and fast sounding of a cap..
The Sonicap platinums so far get trounced by the MR as well, which is somewhere between the V-Caps and the MR, the MR its just invisible and has control over the helium highs better than any of the other caps. Meaning ZERO fatigue. I would assume this is similar to the Duelund control in that respect. |
I get what your saying.. But I think you just have not tried the right caps yet, but of course you can stack 1000 dollars worth of duelunds and get your desired effect, just trying to save you a little, in the midrange I would be shocked if the MR's did not match up 99% to what you hear from the duelunds... I have not used the MR in speakers, but in a much more touchy location in my system anyway, nothing worked better, I will have the duelunds going into my horns hopefully in the next 2 weeks, they had to be custom ordered in my size by Parts connextion. Again I would have easily stuck with the MR's knowing they will probably do as well in this application, however they don't make the size exactly as duelund will in this case. |
Duelunds vs. Clarity cap MR size for size.. Well I know you can get a Clarity MR for about 60 bucks in 1 uF and a Duelund is somewhre in the 120 to 135 region.. So yep half the price of Duelund.. But double what a Mundorf silver would cost I guess.. As for larger sizes like you need on your speakers.. Well a Clarity MR 10 uF is something like 260 each
. But a Duelund I am sure is in the 500 each range.. So there you go. I would not go to such sizes in any cap if not necessary, I have speakers that only require about a 6 uF cap tops, and my components are in the .22 uF to 1 uF range so no need to get silly on extreme cost large values for me as it might be for others.. And yes I was in fact using 100% tube, not totally vintage, they are newer components but have vintage sound along with the clarity of newer components and some better parts.. However I am still using a fully modified custom Tube PReamp and phono, I did now put in some Pure Class A Solid state mono blocks which are the only so far to match up well to the tube S.E.T sound of my other amps in my system. |
Hifisoundguy
/Nope once again :-) They look interesting.. Flat body much like the duelunds. |
Volleyguy
First off I would be shocked if your tweeter inductor is 18 gauge, probably not and its most likely a 20 gauge in that speaker.
Second you are way to concerned in the case of the inductors.. In the tweeter it should be in the circuit parallel... 16 gauge standard magnet wire types should be excellent, even 14 gauge, and you can get silly with getting solen perfect lays or erse which both are overkill and cost more than you need at about 20 bucks an inductor..
You can also get the copper ribbon Alpha core inductors in both 16 gauge and 14 gauge as well.. or even 12 gauge which would be pointless in your application.
The capacitor is far more what will do the most in your tweeter, and fact being you can probably switch between your old inductor and a new one and barely if at all tell the difference..
Your Woofer is a totally different story, you could put a duelund or a mundorf cheap M-cap or superior and the biggest difference will come from your inductor being in series in there, which the bigger the better, I suggest the copper ribbon from goertz. You want to go to duelund well thats your choice, however as for resistors.. I have now tested the Mundorf resistors, and the Mills top ones, the Mills are very good, the mundorfs a even bigger and cheaper, which do the same job.. From reading the Duelunds being silver and the graphite really is not a better resistor but much more "Bright" sounding material from the reviews I have found, and many have backed up and actually removed the duelunds due to the silver probably being the culprite in most tweeter circuits especically horns putting them a bit too much.
This is all in the Shades of Grey area my friend, and with your speaker being a basic horn from klipsch, I would not get into overly exotic resistors and inductors you will guaranteed not get anything but the point of diminishing returns spending another 100 bucks or something over getting the very premium mundorf resistors or mills, with good copper standard inductors.. Wax paper, poly, or PLATINUM coated is the last of your concern, you will just need exact value inductors for the most benefit, and again a 16 gauge on the tweeter with magnet wire or ribbon will be the same as anything else almost guaranteed, I have tried them trust me.. As for the woofer again thats where you want the money in the inductor in my experience. |
"Is a Alpha Core at 12 guage air core better than the vintage Iron Core which is likely wrapped in waxed paper?"
You are definitely mixing priorities up here.. First off guaranteed that a 12 gauge copper foil will probably trounce the wax 18 gauge or whatever it is in your woofer circuit from 1970... Caps, well Caps are in a different world over how an inductor might or might not sound.. Caps are a material that can effect the signal more, an inductor of a good copper material with tight tolerance value will work well from just about any manufacturer, and in the case of the woofer I truly believe its more about how thick you can go, in otherwords a 12 gauge etc... will get you better, tighter, cleaner, and even faster low frequencies in my opinion.. Not once has a good inductor shown a problem in a woofer.. Its all about the exact right value.. By the way alpha core in connecticut I think they are still in that state will sell you a single pair of exact custom value direct if its not on the shelf with other distributors, and they do not charge any kinda premium for them.. I will admit this, the Alpha cores are not as good in my opinion on hi frequencies or midranges necessarily, but the best I have heard on woofer circuits demanding high power copper conduction, and have used them with several klipsch speakers with un-real results, but your running a vintage pro driver that barely moves I believe with tight surround, so its hard to gauge how well or not it will increase your response on that driver, but I know it will work excellent..
And by the way this "Poly Plastic" sound you are supposedly pinpointing really should not show in any woofer really, your hearing it up in the mid probably 1000 hz and higher giving you a more compressed sound, this will not occur in your woofer, your over thinking it trust me. |
I don't know of any wax paper anything quite honestly.. I don't know if anybody even makes such a thing these days.. However from inductors I have used, I have gone really stupid once and used the 10 gauge like 10 lb inductors from northcreek custom made, very expensive.. Good no doubt but found in the end probably unnecessary.. Again a Good Series thick gauge like the 12 gauge on your woofers will be plenty to give you full response without power compression from any amp.. I have driven them with 8 watts and had monster subwoofer bass out of drivers driven with 12 gauge copper ribbons.. Very efficient, and yes the effect you are kinda looking for with Clearing up the bass, and having more "Efficient" or more "Effortless" sound will be apparent with the Alpha cores for sure on your woofers.. I believe spending something like 150 or more on inductors will just be again another point of diminishing returns.. Although I have no idea what size inductors are feeding your woofers, if they are anything at about 2.5 mH or under you should be able to get a pair somewhere into the 100 or 130 a pair range from alpha core..
And yes your tweeters etc
are in parallel not series which is why you will find little to no difference in most cases, go with a nice 16 or 14 gauge if you really want to get thick magnet wire inductor, air core.. Whoever you can find is fine.. I would not spend much more than 30 to 50 bucks a pair of inductors in that case. But for your woofers being with the series inductor directly feeding the power to the driver yep you want something good, you might be shocked at the extra balance you get to keep up with those mundorf circuits once you wake that woofer up and then you might find the midrange with the mundorf is not harsh or plastic at all once you put in an inductor on your woofer, it will blend and give you more low end with better results and you might save yourself from replacing the midrange circuit again, and just keep the duelunds on the Tweets
Good Luck |
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Well why not just finish your duelund investment off right?
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablspkr&1225763765&/Duelund-Speaker-Cable-10%-off- |
Face,
Your not imagining, I used the MR's in a more critical location than you and its a much quieter and smooth background than any of the other caps... Yep the size is ridiculous on these so applications will be limited for most as they just won't fit, however still the best value for the money and materials available right now in caps that I can see or hear. |
Well I would suppose you heard of the audio note capacitors as we mentioned them a few times in this thread alone
So yes the speakers are another one of their products, but not sure if they are what you would want or need, they are about 10,000 per pair I believe and thats with just a single 8" driver and soft dome tweeter. |
Thats very interesting.. But I bet they are in the 11.5 rating probably equal, I would take the MR purely based on build and future reliability with no OIL.. Especially if in an electronic piece vs. speakers. |
I would with an educated assessment of what I have experienced say the CAST vs. VSF in a very critical or higher power application will most likely have an edge in some cases, again depending on the application..
However I have experienced as with many things I really know that the VSF in a speaker vs. a Cast I would give the edge to the VSF simply sonically being not too much of a good thing or whatever, and the fact it is definitely at the helm via point of diminishing returns already I am sure, and I feel the same with the MR caps, Even the audio note silver due to cost, or the V-cap would be a turn in the wrong direction in my opinion regardless just based on cost to performance difference alone. Especially looking at the type of speakers or overall frequency range we are talking about here... I still feel the best for the money but impossible to use in most applications due to the physcial size is the Clarity MR now. |
By the way volley, the MR's are about 25% cheaper than the SIlver/Gold Oils mundorfs top dog, and are about Half the price of the Duelund VSF Cu series
So they are more cost effective and materials used in them is a little more reliable from the history of caps as it goes I guess, as nobody really knows how long the new range of Oil caps will last without breaking down, never really tested time reliability, and I am not making a case for it here at all just thought it was worth mentioning especially with the cost involved obviously deciding to buy these kinds of caps.. |
Well my only cavet over the issue is being such a supreme cap so to speak is only being used in a very limited frequency response application.. I would say for the money at that point I hate to say but the VSF is probably 99% of it and you would never know the difference.... If it was a full range audio signal in a tube electronic along with being a major piece in the signal of the system I could see some slight advantage possibly of the cast...
Other than that I am just speaking from an outside point of view knowing I would never pay that much especially for the type of application here. Your electronics might come into play more than you wish after running the cast because now you might have moved to another facet of this thing and really need to feed those horns with something VERY quiet and dynamic to get the optimal results, your pair of capacitors in cost now virtually outweight the entire worth of the whole system it seems.
There is however some glimmer of hope, I never knew the background noise a cap could filter until I heard the MR's, they are dead silent, and I thought the other caps were dead silent before the experience! I assume the cast could have similar results due to this whole talk on internal vibration control character these very new hi end caps are addressing.
Good Luck |
I think you mis understood the comment... Point being the caps you are using in a crossover are only handling each portion separatley, in otherwords you are using a cap to feed each driver which is only producing a very limited range of audio response. Use a cap in an amp or preamp etc.. And it is feeding the entire range at all times.
\Your dividing up the bands and thats the point of a crossover in the first place. Again simply illustrating there might be a true point of diminishing returns here, using your mundorf on a woofer alone for example will probably perform nearly identical to a CAst or any other in most speakers.. The cast would show more of its performance optimaly on a mid or tweeter alone so to speak.
And in a full range application literally output caps directly in a signal of the electronics exhibit much more of what a cap is capable in with my experience.. Much why many like to use these V-caps and other teflons as they have a bit higher power handling and complete frequency spectrums.. Again in a loudspeaker even these guys testing only used and state that mundorf or duelund was tested in loudspeaker application only for example, mainly because they are too large in size and or just not really designated to be electronic device caps, Although the mundorfs have very high voltage ratings, and thats fine. I have used Mundorfs top caps in electronics, it was much better suited in the crossover, however the clarity MR's and Jantzen superiors are much better in these applications for instance of electronics. |
By the way I think you are very wrong in that I don't believe in the importance of the crossover caps, I have spent more time and money on speakers and caps than some have on the systems my self in the past!! I just learned there is a certain approach and variables to look at meaning one cap being good universally is very hard to find all the time.. And only reason as a universal cap for the money the MR's are the best yet in this realm my opinion
You are going on a one time experience in just getting a more echo and not really considered refined sounding horn in the first place to calm down and spread out, nothing to much of a miracle did you find here(no offense)
You have spent a lot on caps an a very short time and limited application so what you hear is probably correct, but by no means the best and most efficient method for every situation, so I simply offered a little more logical and more or less true approach to see what is truly necessary or effective for the purpose at hand. You choose to not chance it and spend much more than necessary to be done and never have a question you have the best of the best, thats fine, just suggesting for those where money cannot be spent and they really want to have a solid approach to this, its not always the answer to believe the best has to be all one thing, there is a balance, and it can be obtained without going as far as the combo of using only the like second most expensive capacitor in the world on a 500 dollar pair of speakers. Although I admit I hear what you do in that I would many times now believe a 500 dollar pair of speakers with the best crossover available can beat the pants off a speaker in the 5000 or 10,000 range with a 2 dollar Solen cap in it. |
Volleyguy
Shipped to who? You or just from duelund to partsconnexion? |
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Yeah well I have had the run around for about 3 weeks now.. They first said they shipped on the 1st, than that they left the 10th(friday) or something, now they say finally they shipped this last couple days and they were to be in yesterday or today, still nothing... Not sure if they are just stringing everyone along to make it look like its on the other side being the issue, and know its a very expensive order so trying to make it seem like some kinda customer service, they could not even come up with what carrier they use to get them from denmark, or tracking #, nothing, or just flat out can't get them because of customs or something.. I have been reading canada is seriously backed up at the border, so who knows. I wish there was a distributor in the states, now we gotta wait to ship them back thru customs into the states all over again... |
I did not order the cast caps.. Which I would figure are the longest... I ordered just over 2 months ago for the VSF's... So yeah its been a very difficult cap to get obviously, I was told by partsconnexion that if I wanted to order I would need to do it right then, which was like August 5th because they were putting in one big order for a bunch of customers at once to get it done faster and ship all in one.. Well obviously that made no difference, they probably waited a couple more weeks and such others that finally ordered like your casts etc... finally pushed them to put the order in I guess. |
Volleyguy I see..
Well not sure on my math here, but you have now been waiting actually 3 months for those caps if you ordered at the end of july, not 5 weeks as you stated earlier. Thats a big difference, so obviously this issue is quite a bit longer at this point. |
Well hopefully they come thru at some point.. Thats all we can say now! |
Yes I was contacted about the resistors as well
Even though expensive for a resistor 15 bucks is still easily going to sell more than 500 per pair of capacitors for sure! And many more are willing to take the (non) refundable risks if they don't like the 15 dollar resistor over a custom set of capacitors that will be worthless and very expensive if you decided not to use them. So its pretty simple to see the popularity difference and why they would sell many more duelund resistors in partnership with some 30 dollar mundorf caps vs. people taking a huge chance on probably the second most expensive made capacitors in the world :-) You gotta be as nuts as us to even consider it! |
I believe still the king of top expense is the Audio note silvers starting at like 1800 or something each in low values, I could be wrong. |
Halcro
What values are those? |
I think to gain the benefits of the cast would need to be really critical applications... Main thing is that duelunds caps are so huge you would never build an entire crossover inside the speaker anyway in most cases and end up with them in a separate enclosure, which I start to see even less advantages in the tone aspect buying the cast over the vsf in my. Man I can't believe even the 5.6 is that huge! |
Point being I believe that the 2% more you may or may not hear with Cheaper drivers in a far simpler 1st or second order crossover its just not complex enough to spend 100% more or something for a very slight window of difference.. I am sure the VSF is a world class cap and in most cases is the true ceiling for the point of diminishing returns.. Again to me a critical application for a cap would be in a Full range electronic piece running the entire frequency range, or VERY complex multi driver type line array speaker..
But remember the cast was more or less developed to close the gap in the extreme case and really was more designed to overcome the lower voltage applications of the VSF.. The cast simply can take more power, my application and most other speakers especially being in the 90 db to 100 db efficiency range will never see that kinda power stress. You have to pick and choose your battles somewhere, my cutoff was at a point that the caps outweight cost and the performance of the possibilities in a speaker design themselves. |
Oh and partsconnexion did ship my parts today finally, they will be in tomorrow for installation.. My crossover is simple and uses only a 1.75 uF cap on the first leg of my horn.. Should be a sweet result I think :-)
If I was running a 1000 watt mono block, with a 85 db really Hi grade driver system in a more exotic speaker I could see where the Cast could come into play... |
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I am sure the Cast are good and so are the VSF, I think they might sound a little different but probably not better or really preferable in certain given applications. But hey good luck, its a great cap I am sure, at this point no need to be concerned about it. |
Well again the Cast can take the heat so to speak.. The VSF would not be trusted in some high voltage applications.. The casing alone on the VSF seems to be a pretty much basic just get the job done, and its simple which is why I feel its very good to any speaker application the fancy finish on the Cast is for high voltage something Duelund did not focus on until now it seems..
Sometimes the more straight forward and natural the better I have learned.. No doubt the Cast is another level for the Esoteric, but at the same time the Esoteric sound is not one I seek, the VSF seems to get a little bit of a rep for a slight lean toward warmer and more open..
The cast might be a little more "Controlled" but I am looking for more relaxed especially with a horn, thats why I know the Duelund silver graphite resistors although well within price range to risk them will not work out as well for me as like the straight heavy duty new Mundorf Resistors that are super natural sounding, and only cost 1.20 each :-) |
Stormen not sure you mentioned your application or sizes of cast caps your using? Can you enlighten what you did with the cast vs. the vsf?
Not sure, however they are for higher voltage.. Any cap is rated lower than it is from what I am told, for example duelund explained to me that the 200 volt rating for example is really capable of taking on 350.. Seems most caps virtually follow this.. however the cast are quite a bit higher at probably taking on about 800 to 850 volts.. Regardless its not really a point of the disscussion anyway, it was just simply stated that they made a higher voltage cap in which however the cast inherited the trait so be it.
Thanks |
They did it seems just in the past couple months come up with a higher voltage VSF design, this is rather current however, and I think it changes in Tiers of capacitance however I could be wrong, and I was explained for example a 1 uF cap is only done in a 400 volt version. |
Volleyguy...
Again as a warning, my suggestion you have to really remember here you can only expect in some way to end up being as good as the speaker is... I would suggest since going this far you need to probably build outboard crossovers, re-wire with better cable internally, probably deaden the cabinets further, possibly some simple bracing, maybe putting new footing on the speaker via spikes or some other means of coupling or de-coupling to the floor...
I mean it is all critical in taking a design to the next transparency level, your kinda just taking the same old desert receipe and dumping more whip cream on it vs. changing the receipe a little. Again you were kinda warned about this and spending what you did without maybe addressing some other issues.
You will still need a far better INductor on your woofer to really open up, and you also have the issue of being into a more complex situation since this is a 3 way speaker your working with and the midrange is always the hardest in the design.
Good Luck |
I do understand that, I realize it was a "maintenance" type approach, however you spent more on a couple small pieces than the speakers were worth so might as well get some full benefits out of the time and experience of it. |
Not attempting to bring this thread back to life, but I found this interesting thread... Volleyguy will get off reading this :-) Still not sure if you ever changed out those woofer inductors this might point you in the right direction. By the way I have used the duelund VSF's now on my horns with the Jantzen superiors Bypassed with the Vishay MKP's in the woofers backed by the 12 gauge copper foil Alpha core inductors, identical approach to Tony Gee.. My crossovers now cost more than most completed speakers, but worth it.. See link
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1164387495&openflup&19&4 |
What size are the mundorfs? Supreme or Supreme silver oil?
Thanks |
Well again remember something the chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so you are ending up with 50% of this mind blowing sound from the mundorf being a part of the equation as well, meaning the dueland will not enhance information beyond what the mundorf is capable of in the first place, even if you are only running the dueland on the horns and the mundorf on your woofer.. So all in all your mundorf is probably dictating most of your flavor in combination regardless if the dueland is better or not.
In this case both are important contributing factors.. That being said no doubt the duelands are excellent, but I believe the Mundorf silvers are probably as good, but might take a certain application to show it. And yes over time the caps will sound different regardless. |
First off I will shed a little light.. I have experience with just about every cap, minus the Duelands.. I can say easily Sonicap standard Gen II's are not the end all be all or near it, they do cost very little money though, I mean a 1 uF cap is what 7 bucks? They are decent, but much better in some electronics than speakers from my experience, however even in components will be handed a beating from some of the better caps.. They are very linear, but slightly dry, and are no question flat... But they also seem to exhibit a slight over raw enhancement, much like Dynamicaps, which are even worse in some critical applications if you don't want a lot of added peaks and valleys in your overall sonic soundscape don't use sonicaps or dynamicaps...
This is just my opinion in the limited applications I have tried... The mundorfs are Great, but still slightly overpriced, a more neutral and capable cap to an extent in my opinion is the Cardas golden reference, and the Sonicap platinum, but both in very small values and are pretty pricey... They take about 400 hours to open up, I ran them in a hi power TUbe application for about 2 weeks straight with cheap 2 dollar tubes to burn them in, and WHAT a difference.. Speakers will NEVER burn in a tube like power electronics until probably even 1000 or 2000 hours so get ready :-) |
