1. Home
  2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Maybe a little humiliation here is needed.

I put back in the Mundorf Supreme's for more burn in.
I also reduced balance controls to flat from +2 on bass. The reduced noise allows this.

This tuning speakers is not easy. After listening to the vintage (mid range caps) again they started to sound noisy and that started to bug me. So there will no no original caps left. They are worn out for sure and too noisy.

I now consider the Mundorf Supreme's a horizontal move and with break in this should improve as there is only a few hours on them.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
After 10 hours the Mundorf's lose crazy bass.

I find the Mundorf quiet on noise level and did like that combo in the tweeter for awhile with the Duelund.

This could get interesting with the mix of the Russian teflons coming. Will that add a bit of needed speed and liveliness?

Interesting as to how different caps break in differently.
Duelund a bit edgy out of the box but brought instruments to life.

Mundorf boomy (IMO) harsh and grainy not a pretty picture at first. Showing some promise now not neary so bad.
undertow
1,032 posts
 
Volleyguy
Again the Clarity MR is super fast, linear, balanced, and simply the most perfect cap I have heard yet.. I have now tested them being in the main output caps vs. the several above into a rather raw and harsh horn system between me and a friend of mines reference series.. These are an excellent Zero bad effect cap. however they will not cover anything up..

So bottom line, Good silent components are needed, the MR will make every noise come to life, they are super transparent so if you got hiss or whatever these will just let it right thru true to the signal. These are far better than any of the mundorfs I have tried so mundorf is at best for a good tweeter, or midrange circuit, they are not the best in Bass for a full range signal or woofer in my opinion. Silvers are not anyway, maybe the standard supremes are better in bass as you seem to claim, but nothing has touched the MR in lower freq's as of yet minus the Jantzens being very close, but not nearly as clean and fast sounding of a cap..

The Sonicap platinums so far get trounced by the MR as well, which is somewhere between the V-Caps and the MR, the MR its just invisible and has control over the helium highs better than any of the other caps. Meaning ZERO fatigue. I would assume this is similar to the Duelund control in that respect.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow I do believe that the Clarity is very good. I just if possible do want to stick with Duelund.

There is something with the poly caps I have tested anyway that is somehow fake? I am not sure what it is. As soon as say the Sax's breaks up the mind goes, not real? With poly caps there is sounds but the mind does not say Wow that is clearly a (whatever) I have to try and figure it out.

In one of the Beatles songs on the vintage/Duelund you can hear the tri-angle no problem and "know" that is what they are playing. You can feel the energy of it as well. That song is Hey Jude and on the Mundorf's it is really pathetic really. Almost not even the same song.

With Poly caps there is a sterilization of the senses. The Mundorf's although quiet are still rough sounding. They reduce the sound to beat not instruments.

Foil caps can not all the time make it so real but they can some of the time make it uncanny real. The poly's are never doing that.

I am in the rough spot now where each cap reveals (vintage/Mundorf) the others flaws and you are happy with neither.

I would chose the vintage though more noise and real instruments beats less noise and fake sounding.

What causes this? Undertow do the Clarity caps make instruments sound real?

Here is another guy who thinks the foil types are much better than poly. Although I would not say "bright" is the exact right word. "Fake" would be my discription and this is only on direct comparison can one tell.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1222484923

Undertow if I was to try another cap it would have to be of similiar design to Duelund a stack foil or foil cap of some kind.

I feel a little burned right now and frustrated. The Mundorf's would have been hammered by the vintage when they were new. (noise was a lot less)
undertow
1,032 posts
 
I get what your saying.. But I think you just have not tried the right caps yet, but of course you can stack 1000 dollars worth of duelunds and get your desired effect, just trying to save you a little, in the midrange I would be shocked if the MR's did not match up 99% to what you hear from the duelunds... I have not used the MR in speakers, but in a much more touchy location in my system anyway, nothing worked better, I will have the duelunds going into my horns hopefully in the next 2 weeks, they had to be custom ordered in my size by Parts connextion. Again I would have easily stuck with the MR's knowing they will probably do as well in this application, however they don't make the size exactly as duelund will in this case.
More to discover