I modded the S7700 for almost 10 years, so I’m very familiar with it. Only mediocre stock, but less than 1 nsec of jitter after my mods. I sold thousands of this popular mod and the mod actually cost more than the transport. I don’t have the modded Sony anymore because it is not even in the same league as good computer playback from an Off-Ramp 5 or Interchange or reclocking any old transport with my Synchro-Mesh reclocker. These all have jitter in the 8-16psec range at the end of a 4 foot coax cable across 75 ohms. Almost an order of magnitude smaller, and it is clearly audible in the focus and imaging. Jitter is the ONLY thing that matters in a transport, period. There is no other magical fairy dust. You should experience truly low jitter first. Very few audio companies have mastered truly low jitter in their designs. They often quote "intrinsic jitter" numbers, which are nothing more than the jitter specs on the oscillator. A far cry from the actual jitter you will get at the end of a coax cable across the 75 ohm terminator. Here is a jitter plot of a typical transport before and after the Synchro-Mesh: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154408.0 Here is a close-up of the jitter distribution and spectrum: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.0 Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Up until just recently I had about 400 CDs that I had been purchasing since the early 80s. Now that I have a streamer and can stream Tidal, I stopped playing my CDs and donated most of them to my local chapter of the American Cancer Society. I LOVE not being limited anymore to just the music I own. Now I have access to most of the music that has been recorded over the past 100 years or so. So for me, yes, CDs are dead and good riddance to them!! |
I have been reading a lot of reviewers lately re-discovering CD playback after getting used to streaming DACs and they all say that they're surprised at how much more solid the CD's sound (depending on the quality of CD of course) so no, not dead. Here's a tip- find an old Sony DVD like the DVP-S 7700 on ebay for less than $100 and you'll be amazed at how good it sounds. Trust me. |
This is my fifth system , Art audio concierto Tube amp, Art audio preamp tube, ah tube marantz CD player , speaker cables Sterling Audioquest , Columbia ic aq, heimdall 1 ic, power cords by audience power chord, tt music hall, audience ic, ps audio p300 , speaker Supetcone Rs8 98 db Omega...Nordost Vishnu pc... |
John this are my set up. My main set up Andra Eggleston Speakers Cerious technololy speaker cables , preamp art audio, CD players Ah tube marantz and Sacd 8005 CD players , DAC Schiit Gumby MB, digital cable D60 Kimber , interconnects Teo audio GC , HF Reveal ic, musical fidelity mono supercharger 550, My second system Tekton impact monitor, Viva 300B tube integrated, Yamaha cd s1000. Sacd, using as transport as well with my Denafrips Ares Dac, Cables Nordost Heimdall speaker cables, Teo ultra ic, Teo GC,Kimber pc , with Vpi tt, Jolida phono pre. Third System. Plinius Sa100 amp, audio research preamp tube , Mit ic, VD nite pc, Dac peachtree DAC it, Cambridge transport silver star dig cable by black cat, speakers synthetic marble Norh 9? Speakers cables homemade four diff kinds, wharfedale Sub. Fourth system. Diapason Adamantes alternate with Technics single driver, wharfedale 10.1 , Omega rs8 and 3i.speaker cable Clear Day, Dac Teac 301, cd sacd player Sony carouselNC 555es, amp Norh monoblocks , Ic Cerious Technology Graphene , Digital cable Crystal cable...PC costum power cord model 11, |
My CDs are alive, well and singing for me like they never have before with so so much more detail being revealed thanks to my replacement of previous CD playing technology [EMM Labs CDSD Transport, DCC2 DAC, Marantz SA-7S1 (used as a transport), Rey Audio Kinoshita R-DAC, Esoteric K-03x (used as a CD integrated player and separately as a transport & DAC)] with the Jay's Audio CDT-3 Mk2 transport feeding the Denafrips Terminator DAC.with the connection between the two being i2s HDMI thereby bypassing the S/PIDF interface in the Terminator. And here is my story of my new CD experience: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/denafrips-terminator-jay-s-audio-cdt-3-mk2-a-review |
A few years back I did a comparison of a Cambridge Audio CD player (800 series I think) and a PS Audio memory player. The PS Audio was far superior in my mind so I sold the Cambridge Audio. I firmly believe that stripping digital byte by byte in a CDROM drive, and then using the right digital to analog playback of the error free, bit perfect music file will always be better than the best "real time" digital streaming (actually analog streaming of digital data) in an old school Redbook transport. And cheaper too, as the exotic techniques to maintain disc rotational speeds, vibration control, and laser reflection and refraction are not needed in a CDROM, as compared with a high end CD transport. The on the fly error correction algorithms employed in most CD transports are also unnecessary, as a CDROM can read or re-read the CD as necessary to obtain an error free bit perfect copy. My experience with my CD collection bears this out, as the ripped files (using dBPoweramp as I went to a Bryston BDP) have never sounded better, and I hear things that I thought were missing in the CD pressing, but actually were there all the time and are clearly audible in the ripped files. So I cannot see a real reason to keep making CD transports, and this is born out in the trends where all the high volume mass produced transports are ceasing production. |
johnread57Keep us posted on your Audio quest/journey. I, too, have spent time w/ the ARC CD9 in a system w/ an ARC Ref5SE preamp and Bryston 4B-SST power amp on Wilson Audio Sasha/Sophia speakers. Transparent cabling all around made for a very good audition. Regarding a spinner like the SA-10, at this level of price and performance, synergy is key.I was wondering about the matching Marantz integrated amp?Happy Listening! |
Invariably there are those who feel they must make a declaration of the "death" of a format, as if to cross it off some mythical list. These pronouncements generally follow some new discovery in their own system that has transformed their listening experience. Not every change in audio has to be a mic drop moment. In my experience most of these evolutionary changes coexist with other topologies or formats for some period of time. In the case of the transition from analog to digital this "progress" is not always linear in it's development. In the past year I have added a streamer to my system and can attest to the transformative impact it has had on my listening. I rarely listen to CDs anymore..but I am still like a child with a new toy. I am not about to declare all my old toys obsolete. Just as I kept my LPs back in the eighties when everyone was bailing on vinyl I will keep my CDs...and will continue to listen to them. At some point in the future digital streaming will be "dead" also. |
Elizabeth nice acquisition. My experience differed last week. I listened to the SA10 for the first time at CarltonAudio in Melbourne. It was nice if rather squashed processed sound. Heard with nice cables and the PM10 through a pair of PMC Twenty5 26. Then I listened to an Acoustic Research Reference CD9. I found that unit significantly more open and transparent. It was much nicer to listen to. We changed out the PM10 fearing that was part of the compression experience. It was and the new amp was another step in a better direction. The quest continues. |
jafant, One of the main reasons I bought the SA-10 was when I auditioned it at home for 5 days, I was able to play my 5 disk changers through it and the sound was nearly as good as the SA-10 playing the CD. Plus the CD playback was as good as SACD, without the odd 'no room present' of so many SACDs. (so all the ambience remained, even though the SA-10 turns it all to DSD to play it.) With that I was sold. So I can use changers to wear out daily playtime, and save the SA-10 disc drive to play only when I really want the last possible ounce of perfection. The SA-10 really does do digital better, Particularly the high frequencies and upper mids, plus better impact all frequencies, and solid edges of notes) even from a second hand changer via Toslink. |
IMO I still use a CD transport but I also build my own DAC & Phono Stage. Each has a 35 pound power supply. I prefer tubes also. I had to build the DAC to accept digital form PCs about a year ago because of demand. In direct comparison, I like both sounds (built my own server) also. I still prefer the overall sound of the transport because it still has a more emotional sound to my ears. Both have a excellent sound, it is just my preference. Recordings were form master recordings, SACD, etc., so they were the best I could find. Funny thing is that a well known manufacturer of CDPs and CD transport told to stop using transports (even though his company sells them) so go figure that one. Tranports still make a difference. We recently compared my friends modifed tube Metronome CDP used as a transport to my old CEC TL5100Z and the CEC was much better. There are inexpensive transports that are almost as good as the older higher priced ones but you have to experiment and listen for yourself and make your own conclusions. Nothing wrong with either way as long as you are happy. Having a ton of music at your finger tips is really nice though! BTW the phono stage that I build kicks the ass of the CDP and streamer but I hate the pops and clicks! Happy spinning or streaming! |
I use my Oppo only for blu-rays. CD disks are for ripping and archive. It’s easier to get to really low jitter without the CD transport. If you must use a CD transport, at least reclock it: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154408.0 As you can see, the jitter is 35 times higher using only the transport. DACs are not jitter immune either. Even DACs with upsampling sound better with a low-jitter input signal. Using the reclocker also eliminates ground-loops, upsamples the data and negates the need for CD treatments, green pens, destatic etc... Don’t waste your money on CD tweaks. Buy a reclocker instead. Much more effective and can give you 20psec of jitter, as good as a $20K+ transport. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I have 25,000 LPs and 7,000 CDs, 7,000 78s. I was not a CD adherent until I purchased an EAR Acute CD player (upgraded the horrid stock A/C cable and upgraded to NOS tubes). Then, my well remastered CDs (I toss badly remastered ones) sound as good as my megabuck analog front end. Many CDs sound better than their LP counterparts (especially Decca mono classical box for example). I could not collect and hear the fantastic early opera and piano recordings on CD mastered by Marston Records any other way. I still have 78s which sound very dynamic if frequency challenged due to most not having been transferred or adequately remastered onto LPs and CDs. So, I hope CD players continue to be made at the current higher quality than seen during the first 15 years (generally yuk) so that I can enjoy the great sound and convenience of my CDs. CDs also take up much less room on my shelves than analog and with good reissues, have much better info booklets than most LPs provide. Three cheers for CDs! |
I don't think sound quality is the issue anymore. I ripped all my cd's and they sound the same, perhaps a tad better than a CD player due to reduced jitter. Perhaps a tad, but pretty much the same. However Tidal when used with Roon is special. Sounds every bit as good with MQA material sounding even better than CDs. I have done the comparisons vs PS Audio Perfectwave Memory player which is an outstanding transport. The Memory player bested my previous $5000 CEC transport. I suppose it it all depends on the system and total synergy, but experience proved to me that my set-up - Music Vault Ultra II from Sound Science with Tidal and Roon is the ticket! Many front end combos out there that will no doubt yield differing results. |
CD players are long from being dead. There are people out there with better ears and systems than me who have yet to hear a streaming system better their CD players. Granted, we're talking expensive CD players but even some of the mid level priced gear sounds great. It's all in the implementation. On another note, lots have been said about all that could go wrong in a CD player but it doesn't necessarily mean that it does. Some get it right the first time right out of the box. PC audio and streaming are continually evolving and improving and people are flavoring it to their tastes, despite the "perfect" nature of it. I'm content to occasionally tweak things. Let's not forget good old vinyl: 6-8 bits of music (maybe 12 with a great pressing) squeezed properly and the added distortion (as much as 10 bits) in the higher frequencies from the cartridge to accentuate the highs and it still sounds wonderful. There are so many ways to skin this cat so let's keep all options open. All the best, Nonoise |
i mis the feeling of listening with concentration. With Roon i skip/swipe/search as a madman (and listen). With a cd i’m more in the music. And listen front to back with patience. Yes, this the problem with streaming in a nutshell. We don't commit to listening to the whole album, as the artist intended. |
For audiophile, I should say CD players are the best in terms of audio sound quality. Even though I used my portable speaker most of the time, I still love listening my playlist CD collections from my CD player. So I think CD player is not dead and will not. I used my portable speaker most of the time because it is more convenient. I can pair with my phone and play it, and I can stream latest tracks directly from it too because it has Wi-Fi. Regarding sound comparison, I'd say CD is perfect. My portable bluetooth speaker also just sounds great even while streaming music over Wi-Fi. The sound clarity is almost negligible. |
Exactly phd, why does there always have to be a "winner" in these discussions? Vinyl, CD, streaming...all fit very nicely into the same system. Having the options to chose from multiple sources need not be a contest to determine which is "best" but rather an opportunity to enjoy the choices we have. But, I have been in this hobby long enough to remember that there have always been choices. Reel to reel tape vs LPs, Cassettes vs LPs, CDs vs LPs, streaming vs CDs vs LPs. It's all fun. I just recently started using a Bluesound Node2 and ripped almost 1000 CDs to an NAS drive. Wow! The Bluesound has transformed the way I listen to music. I also stream TIDAL and this adds yet another dimension to my music library. This little device (Node 2) has made an enormous impact on the way I listen to music. Do I plan to get rid of my CDs? No, but I must say that my new Bryston BCD-3 and my Sony ES5400 SACD players haven't seen much use lately. I am amazed by the sound quality of the Node 2 playing both music from my FLAC collection and TIDAL selections. I recently did a fairly comprehensive upgrade of my entire system; new Vandersteen Quatro CT speakers, new Dynavector XX2 phono cartridge and Bryston BCD-3 and as good as these components are I would have to say the $500 Node 2 is the biggest game changer. Maybe as the newness wears off I will get back to using my CD players and turntable more but right now I am totally smitten with the Bluesound product. |
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donjr.... There is a nice review in positive feedback. Two parts that goes into the N1 pretty deep. Not sure this link will work but you can google that review. http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/melco-ha-n1a-part-1/ |
hifiman5 Many of us have invested a tidy sum on silver discs (CD, XRCD, SACD etc.) I suspect that in the high end of things spinners will be around for a long time. Maybe only one or two models per manufacturer ...This makes a lot of sense. Even in this era of streaming and downloads, the LP and FM still endure. ... but as much as I covet my vinyl collection (listening to Japan pressing of Dire Straits right now) I have many, many discs that I listen to regularly.I'm not sure how you can covet something you already own. |
