Dream speakers and amp for an 11x14 room?


Hi All,

I'm a first-time poster and hate to present an idiosyncratic problem, but I'm getting the impression that the devil is in the details when it comes to high-end audio, so here goes:

I've got an 11x14 living room that serves as a home theater, and currently have a great video projector that I'd like to mate with a top-notch two-channel set up (I've been persuaded to give up on the 5.1 surround idea). My dream is to have a system that's capable of everything - from running quick, delicate, joyful circles around Beethoven's middle quartets to disgorging "Led Zeppelin I" with a massive, terrifying soundstage.

I was initially hell-bent on floorstanding speakers - I've never shopped high-end audio until now, and remember the big floorstanders my father had back in the 80s, with 12-inch woofers powered by a big, late-70s solid-state Scott amp. The Gallo 3.1 were one idea, as well as the FJ (Blumenohofer) Oms. Both of those models attracted me partly because of their wide soundstage and sweet spot (the latter unfortunately lacking in a few other models that have attracted my interest, including the Devore 8s and 9s).

But while I've been impressed during a few recent auditions by the floorstanders, and hate the tiny little images thrown by most bookshelves, the more I read the more it seems that such bigger speakers may be a bad idea for the room in question - I don't have room to be placing speakers three feet away from the wall - two is even a stretch.

A couple of other key constraints: The speakers basically have to fit under the 6 1/2-foot-wide movie screen, whose bottom edge hangs 38 inches from the floor. That's because the screen pulls down alongside the left side of this "front" wall, while immediately to the right of the screen a bedroom door is cut into the wall.

It should be noted that this front wall is of a cheap, hollow construction - courtesy of an enterprising landlord who moved to convert my apartment into a two-bedroom - and I worry that will be a factor when it comes to bass. There's also another bedroom door - immediately to the right of and at a right angle to the first, so as to form a kind of 90-degree void to the right of where the right speaker would be placed.

Opposite this front wall, 14 feet away, is a double-door that opens into a kitchen that's about 10x11. Through all of this, the ceiling height is about 7 1/2 feet and the floors are hardwoods with a few oriental rugs available if necessary.

Now, as a stopgap, I've installed a cheap 5.1 surround system, with a right bookshelf and a center speaker under the movie screen, and a left bookshelf speaker sitting - yes, that's right - in the back corner of a bookshelf that's built into the left wall. This latter speaker seems to have trouble generating a lot of sound, given the few precious inches of space behind it. I've also got a powered subwoofer on the floor under the movie screen.

So given all that data, I guess the first key question is - are there bookshelf speakers, a center and a woofer that could take the places of the cheap ones and sing, despite the lack of space behind them? I really wouldn't want to place them, or any corresponding subwoofer, more than 6 inches to a foot away from the wall (or a few inches from the back corner of the bookshelf, in the case of the left side).

And the second question would be - provided I'm willing to move the easy chair that's in the left corner under the movie screen - is there a pair of floorstanders, preferably less than 36 inches high, much less 38, that could deliver what I'm looking for in terms of sound, given the fact that they'd basically need to be as close as 4 feet together, with one about two feet from the left side wall and the other with a couple of doorways off to its right and back right?

For those of you who have gotten this far and still have a clue as to what I'm getting at, I am both grateful and impressed. Please let me know what information I can provide to clarify the situation. I'm looking to pay up to $3000 or so for a used pair of speakers, probably the same for a used amp. Interested in everything from solid-state to SETs - but seems like I should concentrate on this speaker question first.

Thanks!
coverto

Showing 6 responses by knownothing

Gee whiz, this thread went to Omni-land in a hurry. You could be very happy with some very good medium to large monitors and a good sub, like a REL as suggested above.

My suggestions include:

B&W CM5
Triangle Titus
PSB Synchrony 2 B
Vienna Acoustic Haydn
Harbeth HL-P3ES2
Spener SA-1
Usher Be-718 (used)
Dynaudio 140 Focus
Totem Model 1 Signature.

Given your space constraints, you might consider wood platform on the floor with larger monitor speakers angled up at you (see here for examples: http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/stands_smallspeakers_hub.php). I have large bookshelf speakers set up in this configuration and find it works well with strong bass reinforcement near the floor.

Recommended subs:

REL T2
Definitive Technology SuperCube 1
Aperion Audio Bravus 10D

If you add a sub, you should get a sound pressure meter so you can integrate effectively with your speakers.

Or, short floor-standers instead of monitors with the same subs:

PSB Imagine T
Epos M16i
Quad 22L2
AV123 X-Static (unique)
Totem Forest (used)
Avalon Acoustic NP 2.0 Evolution

The Ohm Omni's are certainly one solution, and if you like their unique delivery, then go for it. I have found all the speakers listed above to provide above average enjoyment, and there are plenty of professional reviews for most as well.

Speakers of this quality will make you pine for a good source and quality amplification. That is for another thread.
On second thought, the AV123 X-Static may not work for your application because of it's size and need for breathing room.
Agree that Dynaudios can sound wonderful with moderate wattage tube amps - but more good juice can't hurt either.

Before we go onto amps - don't forget a quality source, or you will be at risk of G.I.G.O.

The amps you list are fine. Lots of power is not a problem in a small space per say, and will provide lots of dynamic head room for transients even when barely idling. But you will be paying for capacity that you may not ever use in current application. You may be better off from a sound quality standpoint to pay for more expensive internal parts in a lower output amp.

Here are a couple of threads with (my) former amp recommendations for your consideration:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1198185645&openusid&zzKnownothing&4&5#Knownothing

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1249063069&openusid&zzKnownothing&4&5#Knownothing

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1248817465&openusid&zzKnownothing&4&5#Knownothing
Coverto,

It is a combination of good parts, and how you put them together. McIntosh is a safe bet - my dad had a Mac amp that lasted him 30 years of trouble free service. And many people love Krell's accuracy and authority.

But the proof is in the pudding, or the listening in this case. I just find Naim and Ayre (or SimAudio Moon, or Blue Circle, or Pathos, or Plinius, or Unison, or Musical Fidelity, or other well-made but less well known brands) sound more interesting and engaging to me. If you don't have a giant room to fill or are not focused only on the huge dynamic swings of home theater as your goal, I just think you can do better for music reproduction than a big Mac or Krell for the money.

I suggest you get out and listen to some of these amps in combination with the speakers listed and others to hear what floats your boat. We can point you in some directions, but you ultimately navigate these waters with your ears and your pocketbook.

One last thing (again) - don't forget the importance of a good source. See the latest column by Sam Tellig in Stereophile (Vol. 32, No. 10) where he "waxes" enthusiastic about the new NAD C 375BEE Integrated amp, and then points out the importance of a good CD player to make it really sing. Based on his evaluation, you may want to add this $1300 amp to your list for audition.
The thread listed below gives some ideas for more conventional front-firing, front-ported speakers as alternative to some of those already listed here. I think these would be more amenable to placement nearer the rear wall and adjacent to open passage/doorways on the side.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1255628626&openflup&9&4#9

You could always try the Ohms and return if not satisfied.
Congratulations on your decision. I suggest contacting John Strobheen at Ohm and asking for advice on amplifiers within your budget that would match particularly well with his speakers.