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HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
noble100
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
My opinion is that Bruno and Hypex had a strategy before they released their 1st modules. They knew that they had the ability to build modules of a wide variety of power outputs as well as a wide range of sonic performance levels; from a basic/'vanilla' grade with their own discrete input section to a high performance grade that would come with a standard ic input section that OEMs could easily replace with their own proprietary input sections tailored to the OEM's own preferences. Hypex would offer input section fee-based design assistance from Hypex engineers so that OEMs could attain the highest performance levels from these modules if desired.

The strategy consisted of releasing:

1, A lower,but still respectfully, powered module to the DIY market as the NC400. This module would have a basic discrete input section since many DIYers may not have the skills needed to build their own. Pricing would be reasonably low to spur DIY sales.

2. A very high powered module, the NC1200, to the p.a. and home audio amplifier manufacturers (OEMs). This module would have a simple ic input section that could easily be removed and replaced by the OEM's custom inputs that they would design themselves, or with the fee-based assistance of Hypex engineers, that tailors the sound to their preferences and wrings the highest known level of performance from the modules. These would be unique and proprietary to each OEM. Pricing would be relatively high and be restricted to OEMs only.

3. There would be a series of other modules, at various power output levels, that could be released to the DIY or OEM markets at Hypex'a discretion based on demand and market conditions. These modules would be produced with the basic input sections if intended for the DIY market or easily replaced ic input sections if intended for the OEM market. Hypex engineers would only be available to OEMs.

My opinion, unsubstantiated by anything remotely resembling proof, is that Hypex has insider knowledge of how to wring a high level of performance from any of their modules, no matter the power output. I think this knowledge is available, but only to OEMs and only for a fee. The #1 goal of any business is to leveredge their resources, which includes proprietary knowledge, to maximize profits.

Again, this is only my 2 cents worth, based mainly on a bachelors degree in Economics and some resultant knowledge concerning how corporations generally behave and operate.

Thanks,
Tim
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
12/23/14 Update:

I received my D-Sonic M3-600M monoblocks, containing the Abletec ALC-1000-1300 power modules, a few weeks ago. My original plan was to place each amp on the carpeted floor atop spiked maple amp stands 6" inside each speaker. To increase vibration isolation, however, I bought a low rise audio cabinet to accommodate both amps. This rack is low (only 14" tall)and wide (5 ft) and has a maple wood top with front pull-down doors that conceal my surround amps. The rack sits directly below a wall-mounted 65" hdtv, which leaves a 10" space between the top of the maple rack platform and the bottom of the tv above. One amp, each atop its own maple amp stand with brass cone footers, is positioned on each end of the rack platform near each speaker, with my source positioned between the amps.

After delivery, I started to break them in slowly using satellite tv with a 1-2 hour exception that evening when we watched a war movie, "Lone Survivor", on HBO when I had the volume set at about theater level throughout. The new amps sound very similar to my former ClassD Audio 440CS amp, with a dead quiet background and an accurate sound but with even more detail and much more powerful dynamics. These amps definitely excel in ht duties since they are very powerful, run cool and are relatively small.

I've played almost all of my familiar music on these amps over the past 2 weeks, stored as APE files for cds and FLAC files for a handful of 24bit/96khz downloads. I would characterize the music playback as very smooth but with very good detail at the same time. My previous amp had these same qualities but I have the sense that the noise floor is now even lower with the D-Sonics and this made the smoothness and detail of the sound more obvious. Clear improvements were evident in the sound stage illusion and dynamics. The sound stage was just as wide and deep but images are more solid, dimensional and stable. I;m now able to concentrate on individual musicians/instruments and distinctly hear variations in tone and volume on good recordings. This is new to me and I find it really adds to my musical enjoyment. The D-Sonics produced the same illusion of 'being in the room', or 'the musicians being in my room', as my former amp did but with even more intensity and realism. The In general, I'd say the new amps have elevated my system's music playback performance, and my enjoyment, by a significant amount.

I stated previously that I'd update at regular intervals and report on changes I notice as the amps 'break-in'. However, I honestly haven't noticed any changes in performance thus far. Either there's been no audible changes yet or my hearing may not be as sensitive as I thought. It could be the aging process,I'm 56 now, and can't remember my last hearing test. Anyway, I'm not going to stop listening to music, so I'll try and stay alert for any subtle changes I notice and report back when I do on this thread.

Over the past few months, I've also been involved in trying to upgrade my system's bass performance. It's still fairly good, but I'm using a 20 plus year old Synergistics passive sub to augment the bass response for speakers that only go down to 37 hz. I purchased a replacement bass system that is scheduled to arrive within the next 2 days. It consists of 4 67 pound passive subs powered by a separate amp. After an extensive search, I bought James Romeyn's demo DEBRA bass system that entails a fairly elaborate setup procedure.

If anyone's interested, I'll probably be starting a new thread on this bass system in the next few days. The system claims accurate bass response down to 20hz,+ or-/3db or less. I'll be using this for both ht and music. The pictures and description listed on the link below are of the demo system I bought:

Go to www.jamesromeyn.com. Click on "Audiophile Gear" and then on "DEBRA Bass System".

Thanks,

Tim

sebollo001
39 posts
 
Hi Dennis,

My comment was based on the input impedance specification of the AMS1000-2600. In the manual,for balanced inputs, the input impedance varies between 1,37 and 14,5 Kohms.

The manual also explains that the input impedance is asymmetrical between channels, but that does not apply to your design, as you use BTL mode.

My understanding it that if the amp is used with a typical vacuum tube preamplifier which has high output impedance, the result can be premature LF roll-off and increased distortion.

I will clarify, however, that is not based on my own experience. It is based on the classical recommendation that the amp input impedance should be at least 10 times higher than the preamp output impedance.

I will also say that, in my case, I specifically chose your amp because it did not have an input buffer. My preamp (Benchmark DAC2) has very low output impedance and I am using short interconnects. I prefer, if possible, to avoid any extra circuit that can add signal distortion, and an input buffer is unnecessary in this case.

I am extremely happy with the D-Sonics M3-600M-A in my setup. Will probably stay there for a long time. Maybe in the future I will try them with a high output impedance tube preamp and post my first hand experience.

Greetings,
Sebastian
mcbuddah
93 posts
 
Noble100, Your amps are nowhere near full break-in. I have had the same amps since early 2013 and remember well that they continued to improve for many hundreds of hours listening. I reported on the early progress with them and was advised by Guido (I think) that they could take as long as 1200, but I remember that by 600 or so that I just didn't care anymore and focused on other setup refinements. I love mine and the more the rest of the system improves, the better they sound.
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
Hi Mcbuddah,

Very good to know the M3-600-M's improve over playing time. With my first class d amp, a stereo ClassD Audio 440CS, I recall the amp sounding better and better over an extended period of time before it seemed to stabilize. I tought, at the time, that this was more a case of me adapting to the nuances of class d amplification as opposed to the amp actually 'breaking in'. It's a subtle distinction that's hard to validate one way or the other. I chalked the difference up to the fact I was moving from a class A/B Aragon 4004 to a different class d amp technology.

From my subjective perspective, there was a definite improvement in my system's performance moving from class A/B to class D. This improvement was over a period of about 2-3 months and it was not subtle in nature.

Since my latest change was from one class D amp to another and my ears/brain aural sensing mechanisms have already been indoctrinated to and adapted to the 'class D sound', the change in system performance was less dramatic than it was when I switched from class A/B to class D. Don't get me wrong, there are significant and obvious improvements in several areas with the M-600 amps; it's just that I'm not noticing any clear pattern of gradual improvements in amp performance that I would recognize as the amps 'breaking in'.

To complicate matters, I recently added a multi-sub bass system (described in an earlier post on this thread) that was truly transformational to my system's overall performance. Bass response is now very extended and accurate; measured down to 20hz within 2 dbs and without any measured or noticeable bass modes or nulls at the seating positions. This has unexpectedly resulted in performers/instruments now seemingly occupying well defined palpable and physical space in my living room, the better the recording the better the imaginary affect. My current theory is that this ultra-realism and stable sound staging has distracted me from noticing smaller and more gradual changes in the amps' performance that may be extant over time.

In other words, I'm currently so over-the-moon happy with my system's top-to-bottom rock solid frequency integration and ultra-realism, I've either failed to notice incremental changes in the M-600's behavior or I've ceased to care whether its primary cause is the new amps or the new bass system. All I know for certain is that my system is now functioning extremely well for both 2-channel computer audio and home theater sources. It's hard for me to pinpoint any weaknesses and areas needing improvement. But that won't prevent my continued enjoyment of both nor searching for possible system improvements. I understand that my system is now operating at a stunningly high level and any future improvements will be harder to identify, likely cost prohibitive, less dramatic and more incremental. But this is all just fine with me. I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my efforts and switch my searches to finding some more good music that is well recorded and high resolution. After all, I still have about 1.5 TBs of storage to fill up.

Thanks to all of you who helped me on my long but successful journey,

Tim
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