Tvad - I appreciate your hopefulness, but as they say..."don't hold your breath!"
The worst part here, for me, is that I still buy/try the stuff (with limits - no footers costing $266/ea). At least, if I was experiencing the placebo effect, I wouldn't feel frustrated about the purchase. |
Bobby palkovic pretty tweaky too! "Palkovic's Conditioned Response" not to be confused with the dog thing...! That one was for Nietzsche. |
Look, here's the deal; on so many of these "tweaks" there's no way to do a true A/B comparison. With the copper coupler, at least you can instantaneously compare between - the coupler installed, or uninstalled, by sliding it on or off during the same song (even the same passage in the song - hell, even within the same extended note), same settings, etc. Other tweaks (e.g.: isolation, power cords, this-that-and the other), cannot be compared in a true A/B demo, making memory the only method of determining all of those “huge/noticeable/plain-as –the-nose-on-your-face/night-day” differences. Installing different speakers in a system can make dramatic changes – changes that are clearly discernable via memory alone. If, say…let’s pick on isolation feet, these things make the kind of improvements that are clearly discernable via memory alone, then why even bother replacing the actual equipment. I have no doubt that people truly think they can remember hearing difference in these tweaks, and for those who actually do hear the differences, I really think our country, in this time of uncertainty, could utilize the services of people with such extraordinary skills and abilities…. |
Tbg -
That's not the case. I truly want to hear the differences. Now, it may certainly be possible that I am unable to hear real differences because of...say, poor hearing, inferior electronics, etc. I highly doubt it. For certain though, my NOT hearing a difference with some tweaks has absolutely nothing to do with...as you put it, perceptual bias. |
I think your description of physiological superior hearing as a "phenomenon of extraordinary human achievement" is hyperbole that's unfair to the comparison you put forth, which I imagine was intended to be taken seriously. However, I do believe that the discussion is either genuine, or it's mostly for fun and therefore interwoven with humor. It's unclear to me which direction this thread is taking. Of course it’s hyperbole – as are the claims! That’s my point. Yes, it’s for fun. You don’t see the humor!? I do value this forum and I do ask serious questions and I do learn from the members and I am grateful. I also can’t stand being nice all the time! I get this itch…not really. I just couldn’t keep my proverbial mouth shut on this whole - “You wouldn’t believe what putting my speaker cables on risers did…it opened the entire soundstage up, the background is so much blacker, I can hear new details…” - thing! Come on. You have to be laughing! |
Tvad,
What, they’re not exaggerated? Maybe “amplified” would have been a better choice of words! I never said improvements weren’t realized, I merely implied that some of the purported claims of the results gained by employing some (certain) relatively small tweaks seem questionable (“amplified”).
I think it’s true!
|
Rushton, I think I speak for most if not all that we're jealous you have a spouse who is as enthusiastic about this hobby as we are! nice! Be careful what you wish for!!!!! |
Maybe it's the word "Mystery" in the name: Marigo Mystery Footers. Women are attracted to that sort of thing. Replacing the 75 ohm cable - $400. Buying a new DAC - $3,000. Attracting women by tweaking your hifi system – priceless! |
Good God Nietzschelover, does it really make you sad!? Have a cocktail. |
Well, it does depress me Careful Nietzschelover, that's what happened to Nietzsche in the end. Next thing you know, you'll be writing Wahnbriefes. Come to think of it, your writing actually does resemble the Wahnbriefe!!!! (It's all in fun) |
Most here are pussyfooting around. Pussyfoot: 1. "light in the loafers" 2. "foot oder" 3. "kinky sex" I don't think I like what you're implying. |
Do you know the town where Tesla started an electric power company? Gregm, Telluride, Colorado had the first Tesla power company Tesla's first company was the Tesla Electric Light & Power Co. located in NJ - so Gregm was NOT wrong. Wasn't the electric company near Telluride (actually located in Ames) started by L.L. Nunn (not Tesla)? It later became the Telluride Power Co. It was in Ames that the first AC current was generated and transmitted to a gold mine operation. Mr. Nunn saw his "opportunity" by way of the real hero - Tesla (Nunn was a lawyer - go figure). |
RE: Tesla & Edison
I bet those guys would be audiophiles if they were alive today. You can bet they'd be serious tweakers...hell; they'd be innovators (they were!)
Cheers to everyone who participated in this politically incorrect thread! |
I thought you were genuinely open minded on the topic, but it appears I was
mistaken. Your latest post suggests that you are of the opinion that
people who hear changes are kidding themselves...that they
are self delusional. And here I thought my sarcasm was pretty blatant; just the same, it is merely skepticism and definitely not meant to be insulting. The placebo effect is very real and a completely normal human occurrence. The power of suggestion has sold more than a few products to very satisfied customers….see a connection between the two!? Now, although the aforementioned statements are indisputable facts, there undoubtedly exists exceptional products, as well as exceptional people (the golden eared types). |
I view tweaking as something one does when their components and speakers
are satisfying and no further changes are expected in those areas. Then,
tweaks become fine tuning.
It doesn't make sense to expect tweaks to make large adjustments in a
system's sound. If that's the goal, then either a component or the speakers
need to be changed. Spot on Tvad…well said! Yet, there are many who profess to hearing significant changes when incorporating a variety of relatively minor tweaks. Time and time again, we read that someone has improved the soundstage, detail, clarity, transparency, etc.; and furthermore, these same persons combine words like, “huge,” “night-and day,” “immediate,” “very noticeable,” etc., so that the claim is - for example, “a night and day difference in the soundstage, or bass definition.” Really? All from that brass screw, or those expensive footers, cheap coupler, Teflon tape, etc. For me, that is kind of an insult to my meager intelligence. I just can’t believe that anyone can (significantly) improve soundstage, transparency, inner detail, bass definition, etc. by incorporating some of these minor tweaks. Note, I did not say that it is not possible to enhance a system’s performance by fine-tuning it with tweaks…I say that these so-called really significant improvements cannot be attained by minor tweaking (and, after all, a night-and-day difference in the sound floor, bass control, frequency extension, clarity, transparency, etc., is a HUGE and significant improvement). |
Thanks to all. This was just another pointless thread meant to stir a little healthy debate. Even if we were all in the same room demoing tweaks, we could never say with any certainty whether or not someone really heard a difference, or merely perceived hearing a difference. I remain a doubter, not because I am predisposed to a negative viewpoint, but because I just can’t hear the perceived enhancements that some of these relatively minor tweaks purportedly impart on a given system’s ability to convey music. With that said, what are you going to do, stop obsessing about your system? That’s absurd! It’s all part of the hobby (hobby is a nice word for this neurosis). By the way, I use quite a few tweaks, but I can’t say they make any differences! So, it could well be asked, who’s nuttier, the guy who spends money on something he can hear and appreciate, or the guy who spends money on things he can’t hear? It’s all nuts man! |
Ahh...very good. I was afraid this thread had withered on the vine, but since there is still a sign of life, I will inject some more hooey…There is definitely something to be said regarding someone’s ability, or inability to hear well – or discern details. It is also a fact that there will always be systems that are more revealing than others.
As I have stated, I can clearly discern good soundstage, image, clarity, transparency, timbre and even decay, and I can discern and appreciate changes in the aforementioned. For most audiophiles, the formula for attaining these physical characteristics - to an obvious degree, is to replace gear or do modifications to the gear (proper setup and room treatments are also big factors). Then, there are cables, tubes, power tweaks, etc. that make audible improvements, but to a lesser degree than upgrading the gear. Then there is the fine-tuning that may involve a myriad of tweaks and products; and it is very difficult for me to believe that placing something-anything under a component or placing a shield of some sort over an IEC... can make the kinds of differences that have been described. We’re talking about improvements in the soundstage that are clearly discernable for crying out loud, or that improvement in transparency are quite obvious.
Look, human beings are human beings; sure, there are those who hear better than others, but what’s more likely – be honest, that a very real and scientific phenomenon known as “the power of persuasion” (placebo effect if you will) is occurring, or that there is the phenomenon of extraordinary human achievement occurring!?
I know I’m pi@#%$! some of you off. Don’t take it personally – I don’t. |
I can't believe I just wasted 45 minutes of my ,way too short, time on this planet reading this stuff!!!!!! I could have listened to DSOTM for the 10,000th time.
Jeez Louise. Please ______(insert diety of your choice)help us all!!!!!! Ahh...come on Tpreaves, the opening post should have given you ample warning of the rhetoric to follow. Forty-five minutes?? It must have sucked you in like a bad movie; what, did you think there would be a surprise ending!? |
