i recently got some 12tc for my vandersteen 2ce sig II, krell s300i. they were just what i was looking for, more "air" (detail), instruments are more defined in space and easily discernible in sound and location (as far as they can be in my speaker/amp setup). all more 3 dimensional. i swear the sound stage moved up - based on many listenings of bethoven's 9th before and after (telarc cd). i didn't get any fancy connectors, MN3 i believe is what they are called, little spades on both ends. they st them up for bi-wire with 8 strands for low freq. and 4 for highs.
yeah there's better and there's different but based on what i read and what i've heard in the distant past, i find them to be just what i was looking for. |
To NoNoise: I am about to venture on a voyage of discovery with Darwin, not Charles, BUT a Darwin IC: the Darwin Silver Plus( the next in line after the original) Tony Bender PROMISED A "PEACE OF Mind" return policy should the voyage of discovery turn into a Carnival Cruise
I believe you mentioned the Darwin IC product on this thread, or my PC thread. Nevertheless, if you own one let us know your impressions of it.
I happened to take stock of my IC's, including the newest which was a Red Dawn Flatwire. It sounded OK with the Rega Apollo. The other( past) stars, Audio Magic Spellcaster II, and Synergistic Research Alpha Sterling have lost their mesmerizing power, and luster, and will be sent to the IC boneyard at the back of the closet, or Used Cable.com
Unless there was a barometric anomaly yesterday causing my eardrums to collapse, these older IC's sounded nasty. The Red Dawn held its own, but was generally unremarkable. |
Elizabeth, see my thread asking about plugging high end PCs into a wall socket or a power line conditioner, and the last response |
@ Jmcgrogan2, Hi, The Full loom comment was for Schubert, I have been poping pop corn and eating it and laughing my ass off reading this thread! I see a few of our friends run off from the thread when the flame wars started, I have No comment, LOL!, yep, you can teach an ole dog like me to say nothing, sometimes, Its best not too! |
I started up the road with Cardas Golden Crosses and Kimber Hero's. And, while I haven't been back there for a while, I jsut sold my last pair of Hero's off. They stayed in place for an old cd recorder/cassette player I had for a long time. Yeoman's work! |
Getting back to the original subject, Elizabeth I would second Stevecham's earlier suggestion that the 7 meter Parsec might be defective. The Parsec is described as having two conductors surrounded by a braided shield. If the shield is properly connected to pin 1 at both ends, I would expect it to provide an effective ground path.
If you still have that cable, and if you haven't already done so, I would use a multimeter to check for continuity between the two connectors, for each of the three pins.
If you have a multimeter and do that, if possible also check that there is no continuity between pin 1 and an exposed metal point on the shell of each of the connectors. IME XLR cables generally have no connection between pin 1 and the connector shell; if there is such a connection in your particular cable (either by design or by defect) it's conceivable that it could create the incompatibility you described, depending on the internal grounding configuration of the components.
Best regards,
-- Al |
Does anyone else imagine Sheldons' voice ( from Big Bang Theory) whenever they read SmoggyJims posts? |
02-18-14: Sunnyjim
You know this hobby brings with it a serious and sometimes lethal element of audio neurvosa, so why stoke the fires of others's potential audio obsession. If you got to preach from the pulpit(or throne which ever self image may fit you) preach moderation and financial self control. There is no need to snap out at others just because you have emotional issues that you cannot control. That is very immature behavior. You really want to control your audio nervosa? Stop reading glossy rags and audio forums. Just leave the arena as promised. You are not only torturing yourself, you are torturing others with your whiny, sniveling, incessant babbling. Leave the hobby, it is obvious that it is causing you tremendous psychological pain and scarring. Get help, before it's too late. |
That I respond like you guys do? is that what bothers you? that i am not demure, retiring and passive? Pleasing to men? Seems to be the complaint.
You run away? good for you.
Funny how you fill your comments with insults towards me, then pretend you are not interested in an exchange. i guess you are too much of a coward to actually stand up and have it out. You would rather take a few cheap shots and run away.
Oh yeah, I am arrogant. No problem.I give the same shit I get when morons attack me. When people are nice i am nice.
I learne to be like this from dickheads like 'sunnyahole'.
No problem, works for me.
And i do chapion budget cabling. even while i spend $2,700 (the $5K is retail, not what is out of pocket) And agree I have personally 'moved up' in the world of audio. With $5K each components, I do not have a budget system. So the $5k in cabling is about right.
Especially if i DO buy the next thing I want. which is a $14,500 pair of speakers. At that point, with a $45,000 system, would you spend $2,700 on IC cables?
(I guess Rainydayjimbo would stil be using his free RCA which came with his old $199 turntable. Which is his right. After all, it is also his ears.) |
Does the woman protestth too much. Yes, because queenie's head is as empty as the books she reads. Do I detect yet another male disease stumping, man hating woman among the membership??? Possibly, What next, some quotes and pocket adages from Harry Potter, or the self empowerment movement bibliography; perhaps, Macrobiotics and pilates manual??
Obviously, you have great knowledge of the toys of audio. However, I don't dislike you because you are a woman, even a clawing one, but because basically you are not a nice person. You are arrogant, egotistical, narcissistic, and worse, have no manners.
Several members welcomed your sharing of trial and error IC sampling. Another claimed you championed budget cables, what at collective price of $5000??
You know this hobby brings with it a serious and sometimes lethal element of audio neurvosa, so why stoke the fires of others's potential audio obsession. If you got to preach from the pulpit(or throne which ever self image may fit you) preach moderation and financial self control
Lastly, take a look at Stephen Mejas's articles in Stereophile. He offers readers sound advice on budget cables and components... and not mid-fi shit either. He gets it!! A musician by trade, and part-time audio journalist, he has intelligently and refreshingly considers the proposition, do I really need an $18,000 speaker, or a loom of $12,000 ancillary cables???. (This is a paraphrase of a elegantly stated point)
I am getting tired of this game of verbal badminton, bantering and character assassination. It is pointless and a great waste of time. So if you want to serve the shuttlecock back into my end of court to get even Go ahead, I will have already left the arena |
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Some guys can't cope with a woman who is their equal. And try to put her down. Sorry Sunnyjim your craptastic real attitude is showing,
Bummerjim is way way better name for you.
MY attitude always is showing:
"Empress of the Known Universe" Elizabeth has spoken.
If I am going to rule. I want to rule BIG.
""When Empress Elizabeth passes..all must bow low and bark like dogs..., Those who fail to bow low enugh have their heads immediately severed and impaled on spikes. "" From The Galactic Manual of Universal Harmony. |
I have two Tara One PC's that could be available if needed for your full Tara loom experiment when you guys get together. |
Tls49..... Thank you for pointing out the error, the speaker cable is the Audience 24e, and the other interconnects are Nordost Norse 2
As I mentioned last time, the Audience speaker cable was a gift; and, the Nordost Norse 2 ICs were show demoes which I was able to buy at cost from a local dealer. Otherwise,I could never have been able to afford either. A very smooth and transparent sound. Unexpected interface with the AZ Adagios |
I agree with Sunnyjim that spending large dollars to gain small sonic benefits is questionable, but it essentially is a working definition of "audiophile". What I don't understand is why single out this thread, or Elizabeth as an example? In what appears to be a set system she tried something different and reported what she found, both positive and negative. I thank her for sharing her experiences. |
For, the record, I don't have cheap cables....the speaker cable is Audience 23 ????? Must be a new hybrid, cross between Auditorium 23 and Audience Au24. |
Wow Sunnyjim. I don't see Elizabeth doing anything but sharing her insight with us. She never talks down to anyone. She jokes with everyone but that is different. She has been very generous with sharing things that work and don't work for her. She has provided helpful advice for many people. What have you shared on this thread? |
Very mean-spirited not so Sunny, Jim. |
Queen Elizabeth hath spoken!!!! She has nothing intelligent to say, so she must resort to name calling The only hair is up your butt because somebody has the balls to call you out or question the sanity of this thread.
For, the record, I don't have cheap cables....the speaker cable is Audience 23 which someone gifted me. The "other cheap" cables are Nordost high end ICs.
Jealous of you??? Don't flatter yourself, queenie. Your ego is larger than your cable expenditures.
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Elizabeth, I fell of my chair laughing at your better than Las Vegas comment.
Believe it or not , that is EXACTLY the same rationalization I use for my many audio mistakes. |
02-14-14: Audiolabyrinth
full loom is BS. Now you're catching on Keith! Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?? LOL!! |
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You use your Golden Cross from DAC to pre. What do you use from pre to amp?
Well since i am bi-amping, it gets a little confusing. I have the Tara Labs Air 1 series 2 on the pre-amp channels that go to the top section of my speakers (tweeters and mids)and Golden Cross from the Pre to amp for the Bottom cahennels of my speakers s. My speaker cables are DhLabs Q10 Sigs for the Bass Section and Audioquest Gibraltars for the top section. |
Truly amazing. If someone here has the funds to spend on new cables (and, frankly, Elizabeth didn't mortgage the house for the valhalla 10's BUT, she IS allowed to do so, if she wants to~this is America, ey, mate?). (I can only imagine what you think of the gentlemen who just ordered 40 stillpoints).
Seems to me this thread went haywire.
It should have gone to - "gee, Elizabeth, thank you for the input and sharing your experiences with us...".
If you want to all get crazy, I just upgraded a 10 year old $1000 cable for a new used $3400 cable that I was fortunate to buy for $1,450. To say it brought my system to a new level is an understatement. To think that it takes $3,400 cables to elevate my system is criminal. But, again, here in America... Guess what? They sell them and I can buy them. Love this place. |
10% isn't the right answer anyway. True audiophiles know the correct number is 12.5%. Do your research! I bypassed a lot of great sounding cables to get to the right number. |
Thanks Acman3. I do not get 'Bummerjim's problem. I would guess it has something to do with having something stuck up his ass ... itching bad. Perhaps some cheap cables?
Not my problem.
Agree My take on cable money i have stated many times.. Ten percent is a good balance of total system cost to total cable cost.(this is all IC, speaker cable and powercords.)
Sure some folks go beyond and no problem if they are happy with that. But if you have to ask, the 10% is a great guide. More than ten percent often the money would be better spent on the electronics.
Bummerjim may just be jealous too. I have no idea why he wants to crap on my parade.
Since December I have spent $5,000 Retail on cables/wire. Subtract the discounts, and old cable stuff i sold and cash out of pocket is about $2,700. So not a big expense for me. To "spend myself into bankruptcy" would take a lot more than under three grand. The money spent on a little Christmas present to myself. And that is what the cables sort of are.. Just a little late that is all.
And yes the Parsec are the cheapest current Cardas cable product.
The Kimber wire I am buying is some expensive raw copper round wire they sell. they do sell some even more exotic rectangular copper, but how do you strip the insulation from a tiny rectangular wire???
Anyway, with powercords, speaker cables and all these new IC, i am a little over the 10% as of now. BUT if I buy the Magnepan 20.7 I want then I will ba safely back in the 10% zone.
So ALL I need to do is save up a little to get the Magnepan 20.7 to rebalance my spending.
Great audiophile reasoning there.BTW |
Bummerjim, Elizabeth has always championed lower cost cables. She found a sound with the Cardas and really liked the sound with her system. The Cardas are not even very expensive.She went a little too far with the loom concept and learned/relearned a lesson. Some good stuff here.
Why does this bother you? I don't understand how your points relate to this thread? The cost of audio? start another thread. This thread is in the cable section, surprise, the focus is on cables.
Most of us are constantly constrained by cost, why pat yourself on the back?
Elizabeth, enjoy your new cables! |
Yea.... Elizabeth tell me all about it. You sound like a real intellect. Obviously, you missed the point of my last comment like Mr Greyhound9...."that disagreement is not chastisement" It seems a bit obscene to me to spend all that money to eke out an ounce of better sound; I been doing audio since 1972 and always felt constrained to control my self indulgence in this hobby
Your comment"....and no one says you have to shut up either" is laughable because you have a consensus of the responders in your favor, and therefore argue from a supposed position of authority of numbers (or is it superiority??) You misconstrue my criticism as "whining". I see it as legitimate criticism that needs to be aired
Let me ask: when is the last time you ventured to say something controversial in a thread that either questions the audio obsession or the fact that these toys are so expensive. Lastly, I guess if you want to spend yourself into bankruptcy that is your choice. |
100% about the music..."
Well the whole reason to even have a stereo is to play music. maybe i should be listening to test tones?
The jump into cable hell was after a long gap of not buying anything except music. And by the end of next month I will probably not look at or listen specifically to a cable for years..
So i guess some folks have no ability to see beyond the present moment. Sure i am listening to the sound. i want to fix what is a problem which I started a few months ago, and seriously want to fix so i can go back to just ignoring the stuff in my setup and play music with no thought to the parts.
The fact several folks jumped on your comments should suggest taking a break, laying back, Nope, you want to defend your statements. So if YOU can dish out criticism, so can others. Funny you want to dish out but not get any back?
Anyway sorry you are upset folks are bashing back. Glass houses and all. And no one says you have to shut up either, all you need is to be able to take your lumps. Instead of whining that it is unfair you got them.
And for Jmcgrogan2 Yup! right on. |
02-16-14: Elizabeth
Anyway. just want to clarify my treble happy stance.
For me, if the treble is off it all sucks. For the rest, I can put up with what I would call minor flaws.. (and i am certain others would hate those flaws totally) Odd I guess. That is why it is important to know what the person's tastes are, to help with choices. For me, you could replace the word "treble" with the word "midrange" and that would describe my listening preferences. Treble and bass are nice, if possible, but the midrange has to be right to get my toes a tapping. That's why they make so many different flavors. ;) |
To Elizabeth, you could have fooled me with the comment that.... "for me, it is..... "100% about the music...."
To Grey9hound....maybe you should remove the Grey9 from your name, and just call yourself "hound" If you are "TOTALLY" missing my point, then let me clue you in about something.
I knew I was going to draw some flack because of my comments. However, I did not think a moratorium had been placed on disagreement, not just disagreement over products or usage, but a general disagreement about the tenor of the discussion.
Geez, I did not know my comments would turn me into a "Gringe" and upset my fellow AG members. Would it not be better to take the comments for what they are: an observation. Disagreement is not chastisement |
Yeah I am a treble junkie. Treble has to be 'perfect' which is exactly like real.. So my sparkle might get misinterpreted by some to be 'bright' sounding.. Though I accept my system to others WOULD be called bright. partly because it is always a work in progess. I have worked really hard to get the treble right. the system can be a little lean. So right now i am still trying to get back the balanced point I had with a few Parsec and the Kimber Hero.
I had it and gave it away!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway. just want to clarify my treble happy stance.
For me, if the treble is off it all sucks. For the rest, I can put up with what I would call minor flaws.. (and i am certain others would hate those flaws totally) Odd I guess. |
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I know Dennis, no big deal. I just thought I'd mention it because Elizabeth had mentioned it earlier on this thread. Also, I am familiar with reading her desired sonic characteristics previously, and I think she likes a little brighter sound than you or I would. She has mentioned on several occasions that she likes the highs to sparkle, so I didn't see the Golden Cross reco as a solution for her.
No harm done, certainly no reason for Sunnyjim to get upset. Sometimes that happens when you walk into the middle of a conversation and don't really know what is being said though. |
Grey9hound,
You use your Golden Cross from DAC to pre. What do you use from pre to amp?
The reason I am asking is because I am trying 2 Golden Crosses in one system in these 2 positions and it is too veiled and a bit slow although I do like the bloom and density to the mids and the more textured bass. I tried a Golden Presence in the Pre to Power (Krell) position and liked the more open sound but it was relatively lacking in bloom and tonal density compared to the Golden Cross, which I missed.
In another system, I have a Golden Cross from pre to power (Krell) and a NBS Statement from DAC to pre. I am wondering what it would be like if I switched the DAC to pre cable vs pre to power cable from NBS to Cardas and vice versa. I cannot try it out because the Cardas is too short. Likewise, I tried a Golden Presence in the Pre to Power position and liked the more open sound but it was relatively lacking in bloom and tonal density compared to the Golden Cross, which I missed.
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@Jmcgrogan2
The reason i missed Liz saying that she did not like the Golden Cross ,was because it was the Golden Reference that she had talked about being too polite.
But, that said, if the Golden Ref was too polite, then i am pretty sure the Golden Cross is even more so. |
@Suunyjim Second, there seems to be a cult being nurtured by this thread. I can see where someone less knowledgeable, with less financial resources and less time to test and flip IC's (or whatever) could be reluctant to ask a simple, even naïve question, or make an equally simple comment.
It might be time to hang up this hobby, and move on. It is not fun anymore WTF does that mean ??? Whats not fun reading this on Audiogon? Not fun for you??? I think you need to remove the "SUNNY" from your name . I am totally missing your point |
For sunnyjim.
Why should people with better systems stop discussing them? Just because it might discourage someone else from even trying? Sorry that is how you feel. When I am talking about stuff most of the time it is rather subtle. At this point in the game it is millimeters. not even feet.. Where others are talking about big pictures. I am down to the minute details..
Sorry if it all seems pointless to you.
For me it is 100% about the music and having it sound good. This thread started as just saying i wnet to new IC.. Then it changed to moaning about one which went too far. i went a step too far buying the 7m Cardas Parsec, and all this beyond is just scrabbling to regain what i threw away in error.
The Parsec wires I bought sound good. Except the one long one. Folks with comments and suggestions are really welcomed. Though i agree the Golden Cross is totally the wrong thing for me. (PS the 'new' Cardas are really a whole new paradigm compared to the 'old' Cardas. and are different from them. If you love the old Cardas, buy them up NOW, cuz' Cardas has totally changed it's sound. And the new stuff is different.
I spent $1,290 on one wire pair, then another $550 on raw wire to try to replace THAT one which did not work. (the $550 was dirt cheap compared to the finished wires would have been $3K OUCH!) And I am still interested in blowing another $350 on some other Kimber wire to try. (I can use the wire anyway... but trying both types on my 7m run is great)
So I am 'bad? for wanting to try stuff out? Maybe folks who have lots of money spent on stereo stuff should go hide? I do not have a lot of money, But i do spend a LOT of what I have on either stereo or music. Of late it has been 100% on cables.. Crazy. But probably the LAST big chunk of money i ever spend on IC.
My next big plan is the spend $15,000 to buy some Magnepan 20.7. If all this makes you want to quit.. Not really my fault.
As for less mature folks asking questions? I try hard to help answer anyones questions. this thread is helping some folks too. Gennerally it is like blogging. Letting others know what i did, and what worked, or not. Entertaining to some I what I hear.
IMO the main thing is changing IC is not just spending money.. It takes time to sort out stuff. And yes some things just do not work out at all. that is life. Not discouraging to me at all.
i just chalk up the waste of money to "What if I went to Las Vegas? (sort of gee I spend five grand and all I can remember was I had a bad hangover and no money...) LOL
This is better than that anyway. |
Somehow, I think this thread has worn itself out. First, because it seems to make music secondary to the audio equipment that electronically produces it Sure, everybody wants to get closer to the emotional content of the music they like, but such obsession turns into a game of one-upmanship and seems pointless.
Second, there seems to be a cult being nurtured by this thread. I can see where someone less knowledgeable, with less financial resources and less time to test and flip IC's (or whatever) could be reluctant to ask a simple, even naïve question, or make an equally simple comment.
It might be time to hang up this hobby, and move on. It is not fun anymore |
Oh , sorry . I missed that |
01-18-14: Elizabeth
I recently also bought a pair of 1m Cardas Golden Reference and am not so happy with them. they are too polite for me. And IMO kill the air in the room around instruments. @Grey9hound, Elizabeth has already said the CGR is too polite, I would think that the Golden Cross would then be MUCH too polite. Elizabeth has also been on record as claiming that she really enjoys clean, extended high frequency response. So I doubt that she would have any luck with the Cardas Golden Cross, the warmest Cardas cable yet. |
Elizabeth. I think you should try the Cardas Golden Cross ICs. Especially if you like the Cardas Sound.
Some people love them and others will say that hate them ,and that they are slow and rolled off. I am using a a pair from Dac to pre.
When used in the right setup or combination with other cables and components They can sound Excellent. |
I bought some Kimber Gq25SC 'unfinished' wire. So it is woven into a braid. But otherwise just raw wire.
i made some 6m XLR to replace the 7m Parsec.
(the Kimber is 25 gauge, I had planned to make them also 7m but went with 6m and a bit left over to make a pair of RCa besides.
The Kimber wire at 25 gauge is tiny. But with a good additional grond wire for pin 1 (XLR) they are great.
And no hum.. Unlike the 7m Parsec. which had a LOT of hum.(Laying in the exact same locations, unti lthe far end.. where I moved stuff a little)
So i think I have my final cable for the pre to amp distance.
The RCA cable Imade is no slouch either.
Kimber combined with some Cardas Parsec is GREAT.
So I am not altogether bashing Cardas Parsec.. Just the too long to work 7m Parsec IC I had. |
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02-14-14: Schubert
Full looom is BS.
Expect to feel the wrath of Audiolabyrinth. ;) |
@Pops
Come on down POPS.
If you guys are serious ,we need to come to a decision on a date for this. |
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Dennis, I do not have a full loom for your big set-up, I got a pair of the one speaker cables, also the interconnect, I throw in the cobalt power cord, I do not have, the one power cord, But hey, Adam does!, he can bring it, that will be as close as we can get, unless someone springs for more, the one cables, when this summer?, I have not looked into yet, this is my idea, I have not got to springing the idea on the wife yet!, Ha, Ha, we all know what the females may say?, I am hoping, we always do not get everything we want, well see. |
Dennis, I bet when I come to your house I will use a loom on your system and it will work, I want to come this summer, get the grill ready, pool, drinks, have adam over too.
Audiolabyrinth (Threads | Answers | This Thread) Bring it on . I am ready tell me when you want to come . June 22nd looks real good . i was thinking of taking off that next week . The pool will be warm by then. Do you really have Tara The one full loom ? I never heard you mention that B4 . I'll provide the food and the room Lets plan it!! |
[Qoute]02-13-14: Audiolabyrinth
Dennis, I bet when I come to your house I will use a loom on your system and it will work, I want to come this summer, get the grill ready, pool, drinks, have adam over too.
Audiolabyrinth (Threads | Answers | This Thread)[/quote]
Bring it on . I am ready tell me when you want to come . June 22nd looks real good . i was thinking of taking off that next week . The pool will be warm by then.
Do you really have Tara The one full loom ?
I never heard you mention that B4 .
I'll provide the food and the room
Lets plan it!! |
Jim Beam makes any cable sound better Pops! |
@Audiolab......I would put some money on that if we are all betting. It's not that the loom won't work and when you first put those cables in it will be a revelation and kick the sound up a notch for sure. But, will it get old and how long can you live with that sound? Is that the tone (from the Tara cables) that you want to live with? Does it do everything you want to live with in your system. I have not found that cable yet...
Fire up the barbie and get the beer on ice!!! I will bring the Jim Beam!!! |
02-11-14: Audiolabyrinth
If the day comes that I cannot run a full loom, I get rid of componets that must have effected the cables sound to perform poorly! Aha! So you admit that the goal of owning all Tara Labs cables is more important to you than the overall sound of your system! I always knew this, but I'm glad you finally admitted it. LOL! They broke the mold when they made you Keith. In my 38 years in this hobby, I have never met anyone as loyal to a brand as you, who wasn't on the company payroll. |
