The 80's those were the days, every weekend going to garage sales buying collections and trading most of all I gathered to the local used record shops for credit. I only have but a few of those old Garage sale LP's in my collection today.
I do however have a lot of cool stuff I got with the credit.
Egrady, Your statement says the Lp is going the way of the 78. Well the 78 is dead. 20 years ago many said the LP was dead, now is the time to get a turntable that doesn't require much dealer support. This is the very same thing you are saying, BUT I don't think buy your last post you mean the same thing the preachers of DOOM did back in 83.
I personally Have a new sprung turntable. I live in a smaller town and unless you live in a metropolis you will not find anyone to set-up your rig. Even in cities of 1 million you may only find 1 Hi FI dealer,and their setup guy may not be that good.
You really need to learn how to set-up and tweak your own Rig. Just as you needed to back 30 years ago. That is the only way to hit the sweet spot. You have to listen for yourself, and make sometimes many small adjustments.
Egrady, You have a great Rig and I bet it sounds fantastic.
I think by your last post you are saying you personally set the VTA & VTF. Then you know what I am talking about.
Lets keep buying Lp's and spinning vinyl.
Peace, Ron |
Tube equipment is still around, in fact prehistoric single-ended amplifiers are a fad. Similarly, there are probably 80rpm records being spun somewhere, and perhaps even wax cylinders.
There will always be an interest in historic recordings, even if their sound is not up to the latest standards. It should be considered a different hobby. |
Yep, vinyl is over. Do you have any 50's jazz LP's for sale?
Why not ask? It worked in the early 80's quite well. |
Rockinroni,
You misunderstood my point about getting a turntable now. I agree that there are more good turntables available now than ever before. I'm not maintaining the supply of tables is about to drop. But, unless you live in or near a major City there aren't many shops that support analog. How many Linn dealers service LP 12's today as opposed to 1985? My point is to get a turntable that doesn't require much dealer support. I sold my LP 12 as the local shop bit the dust and I lost my set up tech. I selected a Basis/Graham because it sounds great and needs no adjusting once it's set up, which is easy. I would be very wary of buying a turntable today that is tempermental. |
07-14-03: Jeffloistarca - p.s. you have to be tone deaf to think MP3's sound anything like music. No wonder they're free to download at will, no one in their right mind would actually buy a MP3 recording. This is your opinion (and probably the opinion of many on this forum). But, again, for the majority of consumers MP3's sound just fine (even good!) and they are much more eager to pay for the songs that they actually want vs. paying for songs they don't like (such as on a LP or CD). This is already happening, and will continue to increase! This really isn't just about convenience. For the majority of consumers (like it or not), CD's & MP3's sound just fine - even good - for all of their listening pleasures (not just "on the go")! I forgot to mention this earlier...you can see this in all kinds of markets - like HDTV. The only reason we are getting HDTV is that it is being forced on broadcasters and consumers (and everyone in between) by the government (via the FCC). The majority of consumers don't care about the added quality of the picture (and isn't enough to bring about such a change - and isn't enough to sell HDTV products alone). I don't know if this is still true (wouldn't be surprised if it were), but back in the 90's, I believe it was, the #1 speaker (based on number of units sold) was Radio Shack! Most people don't want "the best", they just want what fits them within their budget (or even less, so that they can spend money on what they really want to - such as their hobbies, etc.). For many (if not most) here on AudiogoN, "audiophile" activities (including vinyl) is at least somewhat of a hobby, thus the difference between those here and the "average consumer". I find myself somewhere in the middle of the two...I want good quality but have a limited budget (as most here do). But, specifically as it relates to vinyl - most of the "software" (music) that I buy is not on LPs (and is a small niche market), so if I want to be able to purchase what I want to listen to...that means following the mainstream (for the most-part). Sure I can find some old stuff in my genre from time-to-time. But anything new will be on the mainstream distribution platform of the time. And, again, for the record - I am not a "nay-sayer", I don't believe that vinyl will DIE...just that it will have a limited following (as it does currently). Sure it's numbers will fluctuate from time-to-time, but I don't believe that it will ever be in prominence as it once was. Wes |
Sean, the 45 adapter for the Linn is a pulley to adjust the speed to 45rpm, not the little hole adapter to put in the record. They are high on pricing, but not THAT bad. |
Sean- I got a 45 adapter from Radio Shack for 79 cents.(last one in stock) Still overpriced :~) I wonder if shun mook has any for <$1000? |
I've got one question for you folks since we're on the subject. I've recently seen some 45 rpm adapters for a Linn for sale. Why would anyone pay $79 for a used adapter when you can get those little white or plastic 45 rpm adapters brand new for about $2 a package ??? : ) Sean
>
PS... I don't think that vinyl is dead, i just wanted to see if anyone else had noticed AA's most recent catalogue. |
Following the thread, logic dictates tubes were dead long long ago; transistors took over the world and provided reliable, convenient sound to the masses. Yeah, there is some damned fine solid state gear out there but I can't imagine a set up without tubes somewhere in the chain. Before we have an epic wake for vinyl think about great inventions that were surpassed by "new, better, cheaper, easier" and then consider what's plainly more enjoyable. In any event I'm glad I've always bucked the hardware AND software trends.
p.s. you have to be tone deaf to think MP3's sound anything like music. No wonder they're free to download at will, no one in their right mind would actually buy a MP3 recording. |
Egrady,"Vinyl is dead as a mainstream commercial product. 95% of the market, or more, really doesn't care if the Lp sounds better than CD."
Yes Vinyl is dead as a mainstream commercial product.
Vinyl it is now a high-end soft-wear product, that 95% of the mainstream don't care about.
95% or more of the general public either don't care about high-end audio or and I think a larger part of that 95% don't even know of the high-ends existence.
Egrady-"Now is the time to buy a turntable that will last you the rest of your life and does not require the support of a local shop."
I remember in the mid-eighties where "Stereophile" had an article that said that very thing. A couple of my friends went out and bought themselves new lp12's because they were afraid, very soon they would no longer be able to get one.
Now in 2003 vinyl is still alive and very well and growing.
So many new turntables to choose from, a lot more than in the mid-eighties.
You can now get a vinyl rig that is many times better than a lp12, for less money that a lp12 cost in 1985.
So much for the doom's day sayers. We will always have then with us.
|
No one was given the choice between vinyl and cd. On the retail side once cds came out the distributors(read labels) would no longer take returns on vinyl. In other words if you bought X copies of vinyl they were yours. On the other side if you bought cds and didn't sell them you could return them for credit. You can see why retailers had no choice but to get rid of vinyl and stock cds. |
First of all, the comsumer was never given the oppurtunity to choose between vinyl and CD. As soon as this musical tradgedy was foisted on the listening public, vinyl was pulled from the bins and destroyed.
I went into the local purveyor of sound one week and there were literally millions of LPs there. Two weeks later I went back and they were in the process of repacking all their LPs and replacing them with those awful silver discs. CDs at that time sounded absolutely awful, now they are just not as good as LPs.
JVC, who had just invested millions on new presses and lathes dismantled them and refused to sell them to prospective buyers. Why would they not want to at least make back some of their investment by selling what they were not using? I don't like the X-Files, but something is a little fishy here!
Anyone who wanted to buy vinyl had to hunt like a madman to find anything. SO there never was any competition between the two formats.
Even today none of the big companies track LP sales. For those who bother to do it, they find that last year LP sales were up while CD sales have fallen of dramatically.
Even if that was not true, how many of us would be willing to accept the vote of the uninformed consumer as to what is the better medium?!?
I have a $3500 SACD player and a $3500 turntable/arm/cartridge combo. I'd say that's pretty even! The TT still sounds better, not different, but better!!! Vinyl might not sell as much as CD, but CDs sound dead. |
07-14-03: 4yanx - I don't think vinyl will DIE. Glad to see that you agree with me, 4yanx! :) Twl, thank you for your kind words...and I agree with you as well. ;) 07-14-03: Twl - ...and in the car I use CDs. And, soon you'll be using MP3's (or some other digital file format) - as many are already doing with the influx of MP3 capable units increasing on the market (for both home and car use). ;) Wes |
Wlusk, I really don't need to add anything to your statements. You've really said it all. For those interested in the mass market and convenience, there's the CD. For that small niche interested in the best sound quality, like audiophiles, there's the LP. I'll even make a concession that CD can be quite enjoyable in certain circumstances in an audiophile environment. For people who want both, there is both. Speaking for myself, I'm not interested in what satisfies convenience primarily. Except when convenience may be a requirement, like jogging or driving. For my home environment I use LPs, and in the car I use CDs. |
Wes, I wholly agree that your "good enough for the mass market" theory will likely dictate sales levels. And, to some, the $$ "is where it counts" is also valid. I would, instead, be in the camp of quality over quantity. You may be very well correct that this is will always be a niche market. However, as long as there is some money to be made and there is still enough good vinyl to "go around", I don't think vinyl will DIE.
Plus, every time I go to my used records shops there is more and more competition, many being folks much younger than me, the majority of which seem to be female (at least where I live).
I almost always make it a point to ask them about their interest in vinyl (nice to have such a convenient topic for conversation, BTW), why they buy it, and what they play it on. Invariably, they say, "my mother/father plays/used to play LP's", "it just sounds better than CD", "I like the music and the covers", and "I am using their old table." They always ask, "I like XX's records. What else do you think I'd like".
I have inquired further of a few whom I subsequently got to know well enough to invite over for a listen to my system. While the quality of my front end does not approach many on this site, they were totally shocked and thrilled. Of course, for most, their point of comparison is the MP3 or equally inferior cheap CD deck at home or in the car.
No, the convenience of the CD (or future media) will never be replaced by vinyl in many applications in this portable world. But, I do think that if enough younger adults have a chance to hear vinyl reproduced as it should be, there may be a solid future for vinyl in home-based systems.
BTW, if a media of any kind can perform to my ears the same or better as a good vinyl rig AND be as convenient as CD, I'd buy it. Just haven't heard it as yet. |
07-14-03: Twl - Amazing how it is still kicking the butt of the CD after 20 years, isn't it? In what respect? Where do you get your numbers/information from? I agree with Egrady. I agree with him that the majority of consumers out there think that CD sounds good enough and, in fact, superior to what vinyl sounded like on their mass market turntables (hiss, pops, and all of the bad TT specs). Add to this the added convenience of being able to take their music anywhere in this form; no "tweaking" hassles of TT's; etc., and you find that in fact the CD may even be short-lived. Again, the large majority of consumers want good enough quality in favor of convenience. I believe that MP3's (or some similar digital file format) will send the CD/SACD/etc. to a similar end result as vinyl is currently seeing today (small/niche market). You don't have to worry about "skipping" problems with solid-state players. Even the best portable CD players today cannot resolve this problem completely (100%). And, you get even more storage capability to play even more songs. All at even less quality (more loss of information due to compression, file sizes, etc.) than CD - much less SACD! Although, I believe that vinyl will continue to live a fairly long and continued life...but as a "niche" or seemingly underground (not meant in a negative context ;) market like it lives in today. I also believe that the CD will soon (relatively speaking) follow in its footsteps. :) Twl - Vinyl may be kicking CDs' butt for quality (to a relatively small group of consumers, like those here on AudiogoN), but to the majority of consumers...CD has been kicking vinyl's butt where it counts (numbers sold/$$). Sure, there is a small group of consumers like those here on AudiogoN that will continue the "niche" audiophile market and who love the "best" quality that can be obtained by one's current budget, including vinyl. But, for the masses - convenience is "king". That's the way it's always been, and always will be. :) Wes |
As a owner of a record/cd store(thank God not my day job) I can say vinyl is not dead but is on life support. As far as sales goes, vinyl is probably less than 5 percent industry wide. It has become a niche market. Yes there are more lps available on vinyl than past years and yes analog is selling but compared to the digital market it is quite small. That said, I prefer vinyl over cd and still buy records but the future of music reproduction and music sales is digital. I think there will always be a vinyl(remember when it was just called records)market but it will grow smaller over the years. I still have folks walk into my store looking for 78s. |
The reports of analog's death have been circulating since the introduction of the CD about 20 years ago. Amazing how it is still kicking the butt of the CD after 20 years, isn't it? |
Oh no it's not dead.
Neither is new music with good lyrics.
This place is turning into a gloomy catacomb of dead enthuasiasm.
Arise Audiogoners arise and play yer systems even with ye olde vinyl and ye olde artists.
Rejoice, rejoice we are alive and we have systems that Rawk!
Get me a beer I'm gonna crank that amp up...... |
The wake is now in process. This is it. Say nothing bad about the dear departed. |
You can't fool me! I've seen the headlines in the Enquirer and Sun Times: Vinyl spotted sunbathing in St. Tropez! Vinyl revisits home in Memphis! I'm Carrying Vinyl's Love-Child!!
No, no, no...it's right there in black and white; vinyl is very much alive and well, thank you very much! Now if vinyl could only take some of that weight off...still pretty big around the middle I've heard!
Marco |
Everytime I go to Amoeba Records in Berkeley I see tons of people, mostly college kids, walking out with vinyl. They have a big selection. |
This is a dated question. Audio Advisor does not comprise the world of analog. You need to look at alternate sites that support analog.
I would say that although we are in the "digital age" a lover of analog music can find a larger selection of good turntables than in early 1980. Also, there is a good supply of re-issued LPs (of superior sonic quality than the orignals in some cases) |
Are you really saying that music is written today with meaningful lyrics? Wow, most of the music out today...you can't even understand the lyrics, much less determine if they are meaningful...
in any case, I think vinyl will always be around at some level...although we have seen the complete elimination of 78 records, there is still quite a collectible market for 45's. What I miss most about records in the main stream is the album covers. These were just so big and brilliant. They even have picture frames now for record albums. Little cd booklets are packed full of lyrics and pictures, but it is so small...hard to really enjoy. The gatefold was and still is so very cool.
I think the audio tape...at least the cheap one, may soon disappear. It mostly has already, few tape players in cars or as part of rigs at home. Making a mix tape has been replaced with a mix cd. The bigger the tape section at a record store, often means an older and lower quality store.
When I was a kid, my dream was to open a used record store. It now seems, though, that this will never happen. A used record store would never stay in business. Record Exchange has become Sound Exchange.....this is when it is safe to say vinyl is dead, the mom and pop used record stores are likely a thing of the past.... Of course now...few little music stores of any kind (cd, etc.) can stay in business.
sad |
No, I can buy far more LP's today than last year and the trend was up from the year before...Vinyl is alive, just not mainstream. |
Vinyl is dead as a mainstream commercial product. 95% of the market, or more, really doesn't care if the Lp sounds better than CD. I have given dozens of demos in my home over the years and the Lp continues to shock people who previously assumed CD was superior. But, not one of them went out and bought a turntable. To them CD sounds good enough and they can play it in their car, which is where most people listen anyway.
While there are exceptions to every rule, I seriously doubt vinyl will come back. In fifty years, after all the people like me who have collected records for decades are gone, vinyl will have disappeared to the same extent 78's have. I wish it wasn't so. Now is the time to buy a turntable that will last you the rest of your life and does not require the support of a local shop. |
Nrchy, With a little work, that last line of yours could be the next country music chart-buster. |
I would hardly consider Audio Advisor to be a good/fair representation of what is taking place in the market. They are a step above Best Buy with a few hi-end pieces thrown in to fool the uninitiated.
AudiogoN would be a much better representation of what is happening in the market. Watch the ads and the forums. People are still very passionate about TT and LPs. It was pointed out recently that the difference between the number of 'analog' posts and the 'digital' posts isn't that far apart, especially for a medium people have been trying to bury for twenty years.
It is getting harder and harder to find good used vinyl because there are so many people competing for the same LPs.
Vinyl is as dead as the V8 engine, love, and meaningful lyrics!!! |
Maybe vinyl gear doesnt sell well for audio advisor.Who wants to pay close to full retail?
They used to offer descent 'on the phone discounts'A little prying could get ya a good deal.No more in my experience.
I think they are a good source for assessories but thats it.
Yes Sean,I've noticed this with analog gear too. |
Indeed, there's a resurgence of vinyl in the pro & dj market. Astonishingly enough, it's the YOUNG generation of dj's who are showing an increasing interest. Increasing enough for many new dance issues on 12" and NEW pro TTs. Go figure...
WORSE, there are now upper end pro mixers with TUBES -- whaaat??? |
Not at all at all!
The world's biggest CD and record shop SATURN in Cologne, Germany just reopened and they have over 50.000 titles on vinyl in their basement. Also at Frankfurt Hifgh End Show there was NO room without a turntable or gear for playing vinyl.
I myself am looking for an upgrade for my old cartridge on SME 309 on a TRANSROTOR deck.
Forget about new formats, really! |
No, Analog is alive and well thank you.
In a recent agon post 07-07-03: Member Aceto states
"There are some 400,000 new turntables sold each year. The industry does not want to publish vinyl sales, since CDs have been declining for thirteen years."
As we all know LP playback has never been better and the High-end has never been as affordable.
The lack of vinyl gear and accessories in the latest Audio Advisor catalogue is a quandary, but with so many online stores selling turntables, vinyl gear and accessories, it is a non-issue.
This is still a good Question as to why AA has chosen to reduce the number of Analog products in their catalogue.
If you look at Audio Advisor's web site you will find 22 items under Turntable and 22 items under Cartridge. Not to shabby for the niche AA has chosen to be in. |
