Nuforce

Agisthos wrote:

I would not buy these amps yet. Not because they aren't any good, they obviously are, but they are a work in progress.

The Ref 8's went through something like 6 iterations with improvements at every step. The Ref 9 is already up to 9.02 or something like that. The good thing about this though is the designers give the option to upgrade the internal modules to latest version for not much cost, but still... I would wait for them to get it perfected with such a new technology.

This nicely encapsulates my primary issue with the Nuforce amps. My secondary issue is with the sound of the amps, but that's a matter of personal taste.

Ar_t wrote:

Can someone explain to me why so many of you guys buy something and then send it to some "modder" to hack on it???? You realise that you end up paying more, but if all of the "improvements" came stock, and the price was raised accordingly, you would kvetch about it costing too much.

An excellent question, and one I'm certain drives designers of high end audio equipment absolutely crazy.

Jason, I can appreciate the fact that the team at Nuforce is working their butts off to create and perfect the product, however neither the defensive tone of your post, nor the somewhat threatening comment,

Those who want to wait can buy the same great amp next year for perhaps a higher price.

contributes to Nuforce achieving legitimacy in the high end audio market.

I'm sorry, Jason. I will cut you some slack and listen to the Reference 9 amplifiers before I comment again in any fashion on Nuforce products, because based on the overwhelmingly positive experience of others, I must have been mistaken in my opinion of the Reference 8 amplifiers based on my audition. The ability to continually return a Nuforce amplifier for updating is a benefit I overlooked, and contributes to the unmatched value of Nuforce amplifiers.

You have wonderful product with the revolutionary Nuforce Reference 8 and 9 amplifiers. I wish you many, many years of success.

I write this without any intended wise cracking or malice...

I hope that when the time comes for sellers to list their Nuforce amps for sale, they mention which version of the amp they are selling, and I also hope Nuforce publishes a lineage of amplifer versions on their website so buyers know what they are buying.

Maybe they have a sound that is appealing to some and not to others.

Immense truth to this statement.

Redkiwi, I agree with your assessment of the crummy sound of the original Ref 8 (70w), and suspect the pooor design is what has resulted in the three or four revisions to the Ref 9 in the past year.

I can't make sense of these conflicting statements, though.

Nuforce obviously had no idea of how to implement an audio design.

and...

I suspect Nuforce has been doing mainly what I have been doing - implementing the original, and obviously excellent, design properly.

Huh?

Using their customers as Beta-testers is not a good look by the way Nuforce.

This has been my pet peeve with NuForce. As a customer, I like to think I'm buying the company's best effort, and a product that has been thoroughly Beta tested. I don't care to pay for that privilege.

Thanks for the clarification.

Holy smokes, Frank, a NuForce 9SE?! You've just reaffirmed my point.

Seriously, can a NuForce owner who has just taken delivery of the latest 9.xx iteration EVER be certain a newer improved model or version won't be available the very next day, thereby requiring the owner to box up his beloved amps to send off to the factory for updating?

Wouldn't it be nice to have the NuForce amps in the system for nine months to a year without feeling the need to have them upgraded to a better version?

I cannot be the only one who sees this as a problem...

I'm unable to edit my previous post, so I'm adding this addendum...

NuForce owners always talk of value in respect to the high-performance/low-cost ratio of the Ref9.xx amps compared to the high-peformance/high-cost ratio of more expensive amps.

I’d argue that there is intrinsic value in having an amp remain installed in one’s system, and conversely there is value lost during the time a NuForce amp is spent out of the system being upgraded. If I calculate this correctly, had I purchased Ref9 monos a year ago, and if I had sent them back to the factory for the three (or is it four) ensuing upgrades, I’d have experienced nine weeks of downtime once round trip shipping and actual time at the factory is calculated. Nine weeks of downtime is considerable value lost, IMO.

Please! The NuForce Reference 9 Special Edition is NOT a replacement of the standard Ref 9. It cost a whopping $2100 per unit versus $1250 for the Ref 9 :).
Please read the Nuforce website for the differences between standard and SE.
support@nuforce.com

Is there an estimated release date for the Reference 9.1SE?
I'd like to wait for that one.

Tvad, surely you jest.
Drubin (Threads | Answers)

Have you followed the NuForce revision history?

It is Reference 9 Special Edition, short for Reference 9 SE. Not 9.1
support@nuforce.com

Okey dokey.

Drubin, I was serious as a heart attack.

My favorite news quote from today's Reuters:

North Korea is working on a three-stage version of its long-range Taepo Dong missile, which could be operational in the next decade and would enable the country to directly target the continental United States," Bell said.

We are being threatened by the imminent Korean Big Dong.

I love it.

Nothing to do with audio. Refreshing, isnt' it?

Tvad, your statements are especially disappointing because as an owner of the APL 3910, you have experienced and/or witnessed many revisions to your ucdp but without apparent protest from you. Was APL giving you the best he could in his in his first revision? Perhaps it was the best he could reasonably and cost effectively do at that time. What about APL’s latest revision? And what about the next revision?

There is some similarity here, however, NuForce's revisions are corrections to problems as far as I can ascertain from their own posts on Audocircle, whereas Alex's revisions are improvements based on new DACs, and other new design breakthroughs, not fixes to problems. Downtime is annoying, and it applies to the APL, too.

But just because these companies come out with an upgrade does not mean we have to jump on it. And if you feel cheated somehow, get over it. You obviously thought the product was worth the money when you bought it. So it’s only in your own head if you feel cheated that the mfg’er has now improved on it.

C'mon. You can't be serious? Get over it? If someone purchases a NuForce amp, and two months later there is a revision, and the owner feels cheated he/she should get over it? NuForce should pay for round trip shipping to have the amp upgraded, IMO.

By your reckless and rather silly reasoning you repeatedly attempt to put Nuforce on the hook and you won’t let them off.

Sorry, Stenho, I disagree with your characterization. Potential NuForce owners should be aware of the upgrade chain. Clearly, no NuForce owner is going to want their amps to be a revision behind because they're not getting the best sound NuForce has to offer, and the re-sale of their amps is taking a big hit by not being current. This applies to any audio product.

I certainly haven't said NuForce should remain stagnant. On the contrary, they should continue to develop and improve their products like any other company. Hey, it's up to potential owners to decide if they want to deal with possible downtime due to upgrades, but they should be aware of the possibility.

In fact, I’d be surprised if there exists an amp under the $10k price that could go toe-to-toe with these beautiful little guys.

I'll put my $10k VAC amp up against the NuForce any day of the week. Furthermore, in three years of ownership, I haven't one day of downtime due to the VAC.

NuForce is getting great reviews, and lots of them. They are probably well deserved. However, if I was considering buying a NuForce amplifier, I'd want to know what I was getting into...in all respects, including any potential downside to ownership. System downtime due to continual upgrades is a downside to ownership of any audio product.

You seem to insinuate that other mfg’ers upgrades are for reasons different than Nuforce’s.

No, I never insinuated any such thing. I specifically mentioned NuForce's history of releasing upgrades to correct issues and/or problems with their amps...RFI interference for example. I'd be happy to provide a list of references if your require them. They are well documented by NuForce representatives in NuForce's own discussion forums on AudioCircle. The only other manufacturer I mentioned was APL, and I previously explained the differences between the APL and NuForce upgrades.

NuForce can release a revision every week if they like. My one point...and only point...is the system downtime, inconvenience and expense to the NuForce owner of boxing up and shipping the amps to Nuforce for updating. It's a pattern of which potential buyers should be aware. Yes, Ref 8 or 9 owners have the option to keep their older versions, but I doubt many will choose to do so.

Finally, one by-product of new technology development is the owner-as-beta-tester. Many owners of new technology seem to accept this as a part of ownership. Most NuForce owners certainly do, since they view the NuForce upgrades as a positive aspect of ownership.

Perhaps this is a new paradigm to which I must grow accustomed.

10-21-06: Kgb540
Its going to be a very intersting combo using the new Nuforce loudspeakrs in combination with with a pair of 9 or 9SE's. Anyone heard the speakers yet?

I have a headache just thinking about it.