Nuforce

NuForce performance better than almost anything up to $10K?

I would love to hear someone A/B the H2oAudio Signature mono's ($5,500 retail) with either the 9.02 or the 9 SE, or next months 9.1 SE...

Tvad, I think you do potentially err in your presupposition.

You seem to insinuate that other mfg’ers upgrades are for reasons different than Nuforce’s.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Nuforce is just a bit more honest than other mfg’ers? I’m not saying they are or are not. But did you ever stop to consider this?

For example, I am aware of a component mfg’er whose distributor performed a wholesale sell off of his entire inventory of the pricey component, thus rendering the product worthless in the marketplace.

To salvage the product and perhaps the company, it is my understanding the mfg’er announced a new and improved version of the product but there were supposedly no changes except cosmetic.

The product was salvaged. But the point being is that neither you, I nor anybody else really have any idea why any company truly announces a new revision.

Whether that story is true or not, we’ll never know. But if it is true, there is just one deceptive reason for a mfg’er’s revision.

That is why I think your’s and other’s comments regarding this particular mfg’er are irresponsible, non-sensical, and potentially damaging.

Because you and others pretend you do know the real motivation for Nuforce performing a number of revisions. Shoot, for all we know maybe they don’t even know why. And that is where I think you and others are potentially deceiving the reader into thinking you are in the know. When the fact of the matter is you and others are just as much in the dark as anybody else.

Perhaps it’s your speaking as fact and authoritative rather than guessing or hypothesizing that I find troubling.

-IMO

You seem to insinuate that other mfg’ers upgrades are for reasons different than Nuforce’s.

No, I never insinuated any such thing. I specifically mentioned NuForce's history of releasing upgrades to correct issues and/or problems with their amps...RFI interference for example. I'd be happy to provide a list of references if your require them. They are well documented by NuForce representatives in NuForce's own discussion forums on AudioCircle. The only other manufacturer I mentioned was APL, and I previously explained the differences between the APL and NuForce upgrades.

NuForce can release a revision every week if they like. My one point...and only point...is the system downtime, inconvenience and expense to the NuForce owner of boxing up and shipping the amps to Nuforce for updating. It's a pattern of which potential buyers should be aware. Yes, Ref 8 or 9 owners have the option to keep their older versions, but I doubt many will choose to do so.

Finally, one by-product of new technology development is the owner-as-beta-tester. Many owners of new technology seem to accept this as a part of ownership. Most NuForce owners certainly do, since they view the NuForce upgrades as a positive aspect of ownership.

Perhaps this is a new paradigm to which I must grow accustomed.

We made the changes in version 9.02 to fix overheat protection and sonic performance improvement.
We had a debate at that time whether to release it or not.
The advises that I (yes, I personally is responsible for this decision) received from dealers is that we should just follow what many manufactures do in the industry. Track the chances internally with the serial number and don't announce it. Ship new products with the upgrade quietly. If customers have problem, we quietly replace it for them. Then nobody is going to complain that we have to many revisions (after all the upgrades for Ref 8, we should avoid doing that).

My biggest problem with this decision is that I will leave all my previous customers in the dark and deny them of an improvement. We want to build a company with superior product and customer satisfaction. So I decided that we should bite the bullet and not compromise our integrity. I told my guys that we'll take the heat and just try our best to explain our philosophy. Someday people will understand. Having said that, there is no more upgrades for Ref 9. version 9.02 is the last one. We beat the design to death. Ref 9 SE is a higher end product costing a lot more. But keeping our strategy of offering the best as an option to Ref 9 customers, Ref 9 can be upgraded to the SE.

All Nuforce Reference series products can be upgraded with new circuit board or power supply when new technology becomes available.

Wow, unbelieveable, what a hornet's nest this thread has become...

Redkiwi and Stehno, I want to thank you for posting. I hope some folks can see what's really going on here.

My opinion it that the NuForce detractors suffer from a few common human failings, which certainly isn't damning, but it is rather disappointing. I'm talking about shortsightedness, failure to see the big picture, and dare I say -- a certain amount of jealousy.

Personally, I'm extremely thankful for NuForce's novel contributions to home audio reproduction. It's not like their early designs sound bad by any means. But they are improving all the time and that seems to scare some people.

No one says that you have to send the amps back every time there is a small change. My feeling is that if you like the sound you are currently getting then stick with it for a while. If you want to stay current then fine, send the amps back once or twice a year and have them upgraded for very reasonable fees.

NuForce is also unique in offering this level of customer support and service. A lot of other companies will just tell you to sell the old model and buy their new one. Either that or they charge very high prices for their upgrades.

NuForce is a very proactive and progressive company and some folks just can't stand it. I say too bad for them. As for me, I'm enjoying my music more than ever since I changed my reference amplification to NuForce.

Oh yeah, and I'll put my current Reference 9's (nevermind the SE's) up against all comers regardless of price. They will certainly beat the bulk of amplifiers on today's market, and those that can compete will likely cost much more.