Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?

"If you want speakers that are etched, hyperanalytical or ultra-revealing, these probably won't float your boat. And it's because the Arros do lean more in those directions, I think, that this is such a difficult and interesting choice for me."

I've been reading this thread over the past couple of weeks, as I recently started auditioning the Ohm Walsh 100-S3s in my 12x15 living room. I've been paying particular attention to the way the sound of the Ohms is characterized compared to other speakers, like the Arros that Rebbi describes in the quote. In my case, I'm comparing a wonderful pair of GMA C-1s, which I love, to the Ohms and I'm also dealing with the "trade-off" between the detailed, pin-point imaging of the GMAs to the more rounded, room-filling imaging of the Ohms. This experiment got started because my spouse has tolerated the look of the GMAs, but hasn't been happy about the space they take up and the way they look. I, of course, am willing to overlook everything about them and their impact on our living space because they sound so good.

But here's what I've come to realize these past few weeks. The GMAs do have a very small sweet spot, and I've been hogging that seat, which is the best seat in the living room. If I get home and wife or kid is already sitting in that seat, I have to sit off to one side of the sweet spot, which means I hear only the speaker on that side. Alternatively, I ask the person to move, which usually results in their leaving the room. The net result is often that everyone cleared out when I wanted to listen to music.

Since I've had the Ohms, though, I find that audio elements like imaging, balance, and depth are quite acceptable even when sitting to one side of the room. And the sweet spot is quite musically engaging, even though the sharply defined imaging isn't nearly as effective as the GMAs. Plus, and this is key for me -- no one leaves the room when Dad wants to listen to music! I find it's far more satisfying to sit around these winter nights in New Hampshire, listening to Beethoven, say, with my family nestled around me.

My wife prefers the lower profile size of the Ohms, so that's a net win.

And now for my main point (sorry to be so long-winded) -- what I've come to realize about detailed imaging and other audio attributes of speakers is that, in the end, they really do not reproduce the way that live music sounds to me. I do listen to live music pretty regularly, and what I've been paying careful attention to lately is that no matter where I sit in the theater, arena, or club, I really do not hear imaging. If I pay careful attention to the saxophonist who's playing off to the left of the stage, I realize the sound I hear is omni-directional! The tone of the instrument is, of course, real saxophonee -- which no stereo system can come very close to (although the GMAs really nail instrumental voices). But the "sound stage" and "imaging" are a figment of my visual imagination -- I see the saxophone player off to the left and trick myself into hearing hm "there." But if I close my eyes, I hear that he's not there; he's everywhere! Wherever I wander in the room, there he is, blowing beautifully, filling the house.

And that aspect of live music is one that Ohm understands. A small trade-off in fabricated imaging in return for pleasurable listening anywhere in the room. For me, they're keepers.

Rebbi wrote:

"Have you played around much with the positioning of your Ohm's? I'm wondering if you've noticed the changes in tonal balance and imaging specificity that I have, in response to changing the speaker-to-speaker spread distance.

Also your room isn't that much larger than mine. Do you find the 100's to be well suited to that room? I thought that the bass out of the 100's might be too heavy for a room that size."
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Positioning -- I spoke to John at Ohm about this too -- he said rotate the speakers from tweeters facing straight ahead (inner edge of speaker is then facing straight ahead) to tweeters facing each other (outer edge of speakers facing straight ahead), and listen for most preferred highs. He also said to experiment with distance from rear wall -- the speakers do well when close to the rear wall, but can benefit from some air behind them. (By the way, the lighter weight of the Ohms, compared to the GMAs, makes this experimentation much easier; the GMAs, heavy and on spikes, are tough to rotate.) Here's what I've come up with so far:

when sitting in old sweet spot, critically listening, I have the speakers pointed so the tweeters are crossing at about where my head is. I also bring the speakers out about an extra foot from the rear wall -- their resting position is about 14 inches from rear wall, so for full-attention listening they're just over 2 feet from rear wall. That extra foot really deepens the soundstage. I wonder if folks who find the front-to-rear soundstage of the Ohms compressed are keeping them too close to rear wall?

for non-critical or off-center listening, I orient the speakers as originally recommended by Ohm -- tweeters crossing in middle of room, fronts of speakers pointing straight ahead. If I leave the speakers oriented with tweeters pointing more straight ahead and then sit off-center, I find the width of the soundstage collapses and I'm hearing mostly the speaker I'm closer to. But, get this -- with speakers pointing straight ahead, I can sit in recliner that's directly in front of the left speaker and the soundstage is maintained! That's a great trick and has made everyone in the family happier, since if I get home when they're already hanging in the LR I don't have to ask everyone to move -- just point the speakers straight ahead and sit off to the one side and get great stereo soundstaging and pretty plausible imaging.

As for size of the room and the bass of the 100's, I couldn't be happier. I was debating trying the micro talls to save money, but knew I'd be always wondering about the extra oomf of the 100's, so I just went ahead and ordered them. I find the bass from these speakers incredibly satisfying, fully integrated in the sound, fast, and articulate.

Hope that helps.
Rich

Rebbi,

Good choice! I'm enjoying my 100-s3s more and more every day, as they "break in." I find that they seem to do piano particularly well, with compelling realism in both the delicate upper register and palpable authority with the lower register -- like with my real piano, I can FEEL the bass notes.

Enjoy, and happy new year!

I'm running my new 100s with a 35 WPC Cayin TA-30 in a 12x15 room and it's plenty of power -- it gets the 100s playing loud and deep and clean. Perhaps I am missing that last low end 1/2 octave or 2, but it's certainly sounds like I'm getting slammed. In a good way.

01-14-09: Rebbi
Winegasman,
Good to hear! And you are happy with how the tube amp drives the speaks? There had been talk here earlier that the Ohms preferred SS gear.

Actually, I don't think speakers can prefer anything; only we can. I have no idea how they sound with SS because I don't have an SS amp. I have a 35wpc tube integrated that I like a lot, so that's what I'm using. My ears are probably too dense to appreciate sound the way an audiophile's ears can appreciate sound, but, yea, the Ohms sound wonderful with my amp, in my room, at this time. As I said, the system fills the room with palpable sound -- including engaging bass -- and does it with the volume gain at no more than 1 o'clock -- after that, my ears start to bleed. But that may just be me.

I'd been happily running the 100S3s for 7 months with my Cayin TA-30 tube integrated, at 35wpc. In earlier posts to this thread (much earlier!) I stated that I found the power fine and dandy for these speakers. And I did -- they sounded quite engaging, with good bass and wonderful voicing on voices, pianos, etc.

Well, last week I lucked into Yamaha separates on craigslist (M-85 amp/C-85 preamp) and I must say that while I have no idea what it means to say that the Ohms need more "current," I will say that the 240wpc M-85 is clearly driving these speakers more musically, with greater authority -- it isn't just volume, which in my 12x15 room I'll never be able to fully explore(!), it's the incredibly effortless performance the speakers now have -- peak music, fast bursts - they're just right there rythmically. Plus bass is more powerful, more musical, more distinctly focused in the soundstage.

So, while I still say that lower power will work with the Ohms, I'm now thinking they really do need more .... current?

I spoke to John at Ohm about the new speakers. Having picked up a pair of 100S3s about 8 months ago, I was concerned/interested in the introduction of a newer line of speakers. Here's what I learned from him –– the 100S3 falls in-between the new 1000 and 2000 models in both size and sonic quality. (Since the 1000 will sell for $2,000/pair and the 2000 for $2,800/pair, that makes it sound like the 100S3 at $1,800/pair was a good bargain!) If you trade in the 100S3 (or any older model), Ohm will give up to a 100% credit towards a new model. I can trade in the 100S3s for the Model 2000 and get 100% trade-in value. The 100S3s will not have a 100% trade-in value toward the Model 1000, but it will be close.

As usual, you get a 120-day trial period with any of the newer models, so you can have them for A/B comparisons with present speakers. Ohm charges you for the new pair. If you return the new ones during the 120-day period, you get full refund (less shipping). If you keep the new ones and return the older ones, you are given a credit refund for the (usually) full purchase price.

He also explained that the newer driver is cast, while the older ones were stamped. I'm lost on that. The sonic changes, which is what I'm interested in, will be minimal. The main change is cosmetic - the rounding of the edges of the cabinets, made possible when they figured out how to make a round frame for the cloth covers.

The trial period seems like a no-risk way to decide if the new model is worth it. Once I get moved into my new house, I just may order a pair of 2000s to try!

Hi mapman. Thanks for asking. I love these speakers, but a surprise impending divorce forces me generate cash right now. I'm also trying to sell Grado cart ai love. And I may have to sell the Yamaha M-85, which I'm trying to forestall. When all this is done and finances recover I'll be back in the Ohm Walsh customer base.