Schiit Bifrost vs. the original Peachtree Dac-it

Going off the Stereophile measurements, it’s a pretty good DAC except for the IMD, but in today’s market it would compete with the cream of the crop ~$175 DACs. The Topping D50 or SMSL SU-8 are both better than your current DAC by a good margin, but I do doubt you’d hear any or much of a difference. Not a perfect analogy, but it’d be like upgrading from a car with a 7 second 0-to-60mph time to one that’s 6.95 seconds.

IMO, the only DAC that Schiit makes that’s worth it’s salt is their new Modi 3. The Bifrost isn’t bad, but not even close in performance to the cheaper DACs mentioned above.

Also remember that there are several iterations of the BiFrost as it is upgradeable. There is a multibit version too.

I've heard that the Modi Multibit sounds better than the Bifrost non-multibit.

I have no experience with any of those.

Thanks for the input. I have the upgrade itch.

I have the Modi Multibit.  It has a unique sound.  Certainly not the last word on punchy bass or airy highs, but it holds its own and presents nice sense of space and clarity in the midrange.  It moves around at my house, from desktop system to headphone stack to main rig.  If you don't like it, send it back and you're out $50.  You'll probably end up keeping it.

thanks.. I was actually thinking about that this evening. If I didn’t like it, I believe Schiit allows you to upgrade without penalty.

@coachpoconnor 
 
Even Schiit’s flagship DAC won’t be as accurate as the two I mentioned above that are much cheaper. Like I said, only their Modi 3 is worth buying. 

You can also sell a late model Schiit on eBay. There aren't many on there and people buy them at almost 'new' prices.

@mzkmxcv-can you tell us why Schiit's flagship isn't as good as the ones you mentioned and what your experience is with the Yggdrasil?

@n80

I’m a person who wants accurate playback, I only want to hear the song as intended, so I also am very much so pro solid state over tubes, no matter how cool tubes look. The Yggy offers nothing in terms of performance for accurate playback over much cheaper DAC’s, it’s basically 16Bit (no longer linear past that, at 20Bit it’s a level is off by 60dB), when even $100 DACs can be linear to at least 18Bit usually (the $100 Khadas DAC board a linear within +/-0.2dB at 20Bit), the Yggy also has around 40dB worse THD+N than a Topping DX7 in the bass, which is almost 1/5 the price plus it has a headphone amp.

Like I said, it won’t sound bad, it just doesn’t perform as accurately as even DACs 1/10 the price. And yes, if you look at the Stereophile measurements for almost all high end DACs, they all aim for accuracy.

I checked Audioscience...DX-7 measurements were excellent.

mzkmxcv said:  "Even Schiit’s flagship DAC won’t be as accurate as the two I mentioned above that are much cheaper. Like I said, only their Modi 3 is worth buying."

Is that so?  How do you know?  What criteria did you use for that assessment?  What does "accurate" mean?  Are you informed by something you read on "Audio Science Review"?  https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-dx3pro...

If your hobby is testing devices, then I suppose a definition for "accuracy" can be posited, a hypothesis established, and a series of tests could be run to determine whether a device meets the criteria (and to what degree those criteria are met).  This may be an enjoyable pursuit, but many of us do not have the inclination nor the test equipment to do this.  And I guarantee most of us do not have the electronics background to meaningfully interpret the test results, and even if we did how do you map the test results to a subjective listening experience?

The Schiit Yggdrasil measured poorly on John Atkinson's bench, but many professional reviewers liked the way it sounded in their systems.  I have a closet full of DACs, and they all sound different.  I am currently using an original DACMagic in my main system, a Schiit Modi Multibit for my headphone stack, and am trying to order that Topping DX3 pro (see review above, out of stock everywhere, maybe I have to wait for the next MassDrop) to replace the audio engine D1 in my desktop system (both headphones and Audioengine A2 speakers).  I sold the BiFrost Multibit because I couldn't tell much difference between it and the Modi Multibit.  I really like the Schiit Modi Multibit, and have had it in my main system (it sounded great, but it is different).  I have it in my headphone setup because it looks cool stacked with my Schiit Vali.

You just can't make a blanket statement saying that "so 'n so DAC is the only one worth buying."  There are many different flavors out there and sometimes you will buy a DAC because it is readily available from a reliable source (like a dealer you might have a relationship with), or because it just looks cool and you want to try it out!

and even if we did how do you map the test results to a subjective listening experience?

Thats super easy, if any distortion/non-linearity/errors/etc. are below established audibility tresholds, then it’ll be transparent. THD+N of -130dB vs -140dB is not meaningful for usage as they are both below the noise floor of any room, even though it’s easy to say the latter is better. A DAC that has a frequency response of +/-0.1dB is better than +/-0.2dB, but they’ll sound similar and be audibly better than one that’s +/-1dB. IMD that’s 60dB below the fundamental will be inaudible with music (may be audible for test tones).

Indeed, getting concrete values for what’s transparent is difficult, but if the values are far better than any human tests have shown, than that’s good.

mzkmxcv:  I agree with you.  But my "Mimby" has been oodles of fun, and I still highly recommend it for someone who wants to try out a different flavor of DAC without breaking the bank.

@kahlenz

Yeah, that’s why I tried to stress that I’m talking about accurate playback. I want all my gear transparent, and add DSP to taste, rather than not add any DSP and try and mix and match gear that colors the sound on its own. Simply different philosophies.

mzkmxcv:  that accuracy agenda is out the window as soon as the recording engineer hooks up a mic.  Accurate to what?  The natural tone and timber of the acoustic event?  The engineer's concept of how it should sound?  The artist's vision of how he/she wants his/her music to come across?

When you add playback systems and varying room acoustics, the idea of "accuracy" becomes absurd.  Everything that comes in contact with the original signal is going to color the sound.  There is no such thing as accurate.

At best, playback systems should be designed for the pleasure of the listener.  That includes colorations of all sorts.  It really boils down to what you want to listen to, and what, for you, best conveys the feelings and emotions of the music.

kahlenz

... There is no such thing as accurate. At best, playback systems should be designed for the pleasure of the listener.

That's a fine preference, but of course it has nothing to do with high fidelity.

Fidelity to what?  What the mastering engineer hears?  Then hook up a pair of Auratone 5c speakers and listen in an anechoic chamber.

With notable exceptions, most engineers master for the average consumer.  No matter how it is mastered, all recordings are destined to be played back in a bewildering variety of systems, usually assembled to the taste of the owner.  Those of us with more revealing systems like to call them "HiFi"s.  It's a matter of semantics.

Mzkmxcv

I think you need to read this

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-audioquest-hurricane-part-1

Bo1972 knows about high fidelity

@2psyop

Anyone who thinks a power cable makes any difference is sadly mistaken, any product that has a non-optimal power cord is few and far between and should be considered defective. The only caveat is if you live next to like a radio tower, where you have crazy EMI, which Paul McGowan (who sells >$100 power cords) even admits; but even then, a 20¢ ferrite chocked will fix that. 
 
It’s no different than buying those Brilliant Pebbles that you scatter across your room to reduce reflections.

Please don't bring the power cable discussion into any threads where it hasn't already popped up!

But that does bring up a question about the Topping D50. It does not appear to come with a power source. Why not? What if I'm not planning on using a powered USB source? At least the Schiit Modi 3 and Multibit come with a wall wart. Why would Topping leave that out?

@n80

It does take power over USB. But yes, odd they didn’t include a wall power cable. I know some owners use an Anker portable battery to power their’s (hey, it’s not as crazy as people using a Chord Mojo as a desktop DAC).

So if I were not going to use it with a powered USB source I would have to buy a wall wart with the right specs? Probably not going to do the battery thing even though I already have one of the Ankers you mention. I don't thing the Anker will charge and power something at the same time. Have no desire having to worry about whether my DAC has a 'charge'.

Have also heard a lot of negatives about USB power.

@n80 
 
ASR measurements show no difference in performance using USB power nor the Anker. The D50 uses a standard 1amp 5v, so something like this will work. Again, won’t defend the decision to not include one.

When I was comparing DAC's Amazon would show , frequently bought together,  pairing the D50 with the IPower low noise power supply which costs $50 so it came to about $300 total. I went with a different dac and don't know why they don't supply something with the D50.