Seller is responsible to get item to you, intact. yes? or no?


Is the seller responsible for packing and shipping? or not? Should the seller insist on a safe form of shipping? (and if the seller does insist, can he make the buyer pay for air, or 2-day?) or can the buyer say ship cheap (even though the seller eats the shipping fail?) ((And DOES the buyer eat the broken equipment cost?))                  
Who should be worried about insurance... the buyer? or the seller? Since it it is lost or broken, the buyer can get his/her money back. (usually)  
My 'take' is that the person AT RISK for loss is the SELLER. And the SELLER should certainly be needing the insurance. (Notice the seller is the person who has to collect insurance, NOT the buyer)... So IMO the Seller should be including the cost of insurance IN THE ASKING PRICE. Since the seller is the one 'needing' the insurance.                   
The other side is why should the buyer PAY for insurance when the seller is the one being protected by insurance?            
I have asked this before long ago, and the main answer seems to be FURY on the part of (mainly) sellers claiming they have no part in any shipping fail, that they say it is 100% on the buyer. (to which I just laugh)Where I would say the shipping packing, and burden of surety is 100% on the seller/person shipping.So what's your thoughts on it today...(like I said, I asked this years ago, and got a LOT of flack for even claiming the seller is the bad guy, and is responsible 100% of the time for the insurance and proper packing and insurance against loss.) So I thought it was a pertinent question. and wonder what all you folks think, today?

elizabeth

Showing 3 responses by teo_audio

Yes, you the end point, making the claim is actually you taking possession. It's a contracted bargaining scenario. Making the claim means you've got skin in the game, and the seller's position is reduced in the potential for incurring costs and involvement.
In manufacturing, skid size shipments are almost invariably FOB. Basically, the buyer arranges to have the items picked up at your dock.

As soon as the appointed shipping company touches that skid(s), any damage or loss is the responsibility of the buyer and their chosen shipping company.

The reason for this methodology of shipping is fairly clear. Cost, time, and losses. No one wants to be sued by a buyer for losses of a shipment, when it is actually the shipping company that has made a mess. and shipping companies are like insurance companies. Good luck getting the payout or damage or loss, when the time comes.

No manufacturer with a lick of sense wants to or can afford to be involved in dealing with having to re-ship or re-manufacture an item at their own expense and time. It can make a mess of manufacturing schedules and margins. And such a thing...invariably does just that. So FOB is the norm in manufacturing.

The shipper or manufacturer being responsible for the given item until it reaches your door, is a gift. Seriously.

Even if we might not see it that way. As most times the given shipping companies contract out the insurance aspect of the costs added to shipping, and that insurance company and their claim adjusters are there to really make sure that they don’t pay for the mistakes of the shippers, manufacturers and so on. (bad packing, bad handling, lies, fraud, and so on). Claims can be a nightmare.

I’ve shipped a good 10k+ parcels all over the world, but not to Antarctica. Yet. But pretty well everywhere else. Packing and labeling is critical. This is not a place to save $2-3-5 and a bit of your time. Overpack and over label.

ADULT SIGNATURE required for delivery of expensive parcels, and/or heavy parcels. In countries with shipping theft problems (eg, Indonesia), then it’s set for ’pick up at the local shipping depot, only’, and that adult signature requirement. ID has to be shown to sign for it.

Signature required is basically better than the insurance itself, as this tends to ensure that things actually arrive, and are not stolen by sloppy delivery methods, or outright driver theft. The countries with the highest wage disparity are the ones with the most prevalent theft-loss problems.

Eg, to ship to Indonesia, is a shipping depot pick up scenario, no delivery to the end user. And the id of the addressed and shipped to person is shown and then the ID’d individual has to sign for it. It forces honesty and defeats most methods used for item theft in shipping.

Package damage can be witnessed by the shipping company people and the recipient, at the same time, right on the premises of the shipping company. It fast forwards claims, if any. Always consider opening up the item right in front of the people at the shipping depot, if something feels off. If there is obvious damage to the package/item, refuse to sign and leave it right there, is the general advice.

In my experience, a 20-30-40 pound amplifier should be packed well enough and arranged internally well enough, to handle a 3-5 foot drop onto a cement floor with no damage, and the said drop, on any corner or side of the package. It’s the transients, the hard stops, that’s the problem.

Bubble wrap is your friend, here. Have lots of friends. Use lots of it. It lowers the level of impact transients in peak g forces (from a 5 foot drop) and prevents most chassis twisting, damage, etc, for items with massive transformers, etc. I say 5 feet, all the time, as that’s what it might be when a 6 foot tall delivery person is holding the box at chest level. You should hear and see these guys transfer parcels to a truck when they are busy at the given shipping depot. Like a person’s first visit to a slaughterhouse. Frightening.

Additionally, the packed item must be able to handle multiple hits like that, and it should be able to handle a flip down a flight of stairs. IMO and IME, anything else is bordering on underpacked and badly built. Seriously.

Most audio gear is NEVER shipped this way when new. Most audio gear is handled by dedicated shipping companies who handle skids of this stuff all day long and are experts at handling new electronics.

Most audio gear boxes and packaging from major manufacturers are designed for this level of gentle handling by the dedicated electronics shippers.... and are ~not~ designed for international or domestic UPS, USPS, or FED-EX shipping.

Eg, shipping a $5k surround sound amplifier at 50lbs, in it’s original box... is a crap shoot at best, as that packaging was designed to get it safely to the store via the dedicated electronics shipping methods and not for shipping through general public channels. Nor was the amplifier designed to handle the beatings that normal public shipping will put on it. most times they can take it, but one bad drop can make a mess.

This is where the Extra $20 of work in packing and then the signature required bits become ultra critical.

Oh yes, for the odd time shipper, who wants the best boxes for shipping audio electronics, clothing companies (the gap, etc) have the best boxes, in size and quality. Those are the dumpsters to dive for $10-15 ’impossible to source’ water safe coated and 200lb double wall boxes - of the right sizes and shapes.
Signature required, just means someone to sign at the delivery point. No concern of who.

ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED, is almost 2.5 times as expensive, as it requires the driver of the UPS truck to check the identification papers of the person signing and match them against the name on the parcel.

Expensive parcel?...always opt for ’adult signature required.’