Skeptic or just plain hard headed


So I purchased a pair of Morrow Audio phono cables. These are the PH3 with the Eichmann connectors. Wanted to start there to see if MA cables will be a viable option for my system.I think my story is not so unique to others who have purchased MA cables. So no need to go into the hu hum of burn-in in regards to MA cables, and how things sound bad at first, then gets better,  then excellent...yada yada yada. I know the story about this product.  I simply am one who is not a believer in electronics break in periods, or battery packs on cables, etc... Regardless of what side of the fence you are on in regards to that Im NOT trying to start that debate again please.. Anyway. After reading several reviews of the MA cables and understanding that most agreed that the cables needed a substantial burn-in time, and that the cables would not sound its best until this happens I decided to give them a try. Thinking ok lets get a jump on the burn-in period (if the concept is true). I paid for the 2 day burn-in service from MA. What I didn't expect is that when I got the cable it would sound as bad as it did in comparison to my existing name brand cable (not getting into that either, not relevant). I thought well the cable might not quite be up to snuff with all this talk about burn-in (if its true) but not that much of a difference.  I mean as soon as I dropped the needle on the record I immediately heard a profound difference in sound stage and clarity degridation. Needless to say this cable was destined to be returned to MA for a full refund and my thinking was "they are crazy if I am going to trade my cable for this cable" So I decided to give MA a call to setup the return. Talked with Mike Morrow (very nice guy by the way) and we had our differences in what I should expect out of his product. Now my Mother always told me that I have a hard head.. I heard that growing up all my life, and when you couple that with skepticism it makes a pretty, well lets just say not a very fun person to have a debate with lol. However Mike insisted that if I return the cable that I would be missing out on the fruit they would bare after 400 hours of break in. 400 hours??? really!. Oh at that point I was really ready to return them. I told all my friends "Mike must be nuts" (no offense Mike) no way am I going to wait a year to hear what this cable is capable of, AND I do not have any way to expedite the process...at least I thought I didn't until I found an old sound bar I don't use anymore with analog inputs. Ok I know you pro MA and  pro cable burn-in folks are chomping at the bit. Im almost done. Take your hands off the keyboard for just a few more lines. 

So here is the deal to be fair I am going to be open minded about this because Mike really made me feel like I would be missing out if I return the cable without a proper burn-in (great salesman), and since he had such conviction I now think I have to test this thing out right??. Now I know that there are testimonials out there about how the MA cable improved over 100s of hours in their system, and that they are now "blown away". However can you really hear a profound difference in a cable you play in your system over 170 hours or so?  I would think a gradual difference would be harder to detect. I mean my system seems to sound better to me everyday without making any changes. Is it because of  continued cable and electronics burn in?? maybe. Or maybe its just my brain becoming more intimate with the sound of my system. Well this test I'm doing should reveal a night and day difference from what the system sounds like today with the cable pre burn-in if there is any merit to the notion. In regards to does it sound better than my existing cable that is yet to be determined. I think my goal now is to prove or dis-prove if cable burn-in is a real thing. This whole idea has evolved from if it's an improvement or not over what I use today. We can discuss that later.

I now have the cable connected between a cd player , and a sound bar with a CD playing on repeat. The disc of choice for this burn-in is rather dynamic so it should be a good test. At the end of 16 days (384 hours) I will move the cables to my reference system and do about another 20 hours of additional burn-in to compensate for moving the cable. This will put a total of 452 hours of burn-in on the PH3. When I put this cable back in my system I sure hope it sings because this is a lot to go through to add a cable to your system. Mike if you are right I will eat crow and will preach from the highest mountain top that you are right, and that cable burn-in is REAL.  For me anyway the myth will be considered busted or reinforce my belief that cable burn-in is a bunch of BS. 

For those who will argue the point of cable burn-in I fully understand the concept, and I don't plan to get sucked down that rat hole and I won't argue that....yet because at the end of this test I may be in your camp and I don't want to have a steady diet of crow so for now I will remain neutral on the subject until the test is complete.  However I will be totally transparent and honest about the results. So not trying to make anyone angry as I know beliefs about audio are sensitive subjects, and rightfully so this hobby is expensive and I like you have a substancial investment in this. Just trying to get to the truth. I also understand that cable burn-in may actually happen when you consider it from a scientific perspective, but the real question is can you actually hear the difference.  

I will report back to this thread in 17 days from today (need at least one day to evaluate) with the results. 

happy listening!!

-Keith
barnettk

Showing 30 responses by elizabeth

If the cable is for from a turntable TO the phono box. it will NEVER break in. PERIOD The signal is far too small to break in, and the after broken in cable (you broke in on some other component) will never see enough voltage to STAY broken in !!!So I say return it. On the other hand if it is from the phono box to the preamp. then it might? stay broken in, but ONLY IF the phono box is left on 24/7
If the phono box is only turned on when you use it? then RETURN THE CABLE, you are wasting your time. Buy a cable that sounds good out of the box, or good within a few hours... do your self a BIG FAVOR, get rid of the nonsense break-in cable. SERIOUSLY.
I had an experience of not liking the cable... The dealer saying let it break in... After a MONTH of playing 10 hours a day, it sucked just a much as it did on day one. With the dealer still saying it just need to break in... I returned it. Sadly I did not buy the cable i really wanted, instead I used the store credit to buy total junk I never really used. Only two years later did I finally pony up the $3,200 for the cable I really knew would solve my desires.    
Before that experience, I had a cable, it sucked, then by day two it was pretty good. But I always remember the month long bummer I put up with based on 'It will break in'. Never again.
I seriously would NEVER (again) bother with some cable that required hundreds of hours to break in, even on a typical couple of volts line. Put that ’cable’ on a line running at best tenths of a volt.. And all you have is endless 💩 💩 💩 for sound. And even if you bought a $1000 cable cooker, you would need to be re-burning in said cable every month or so till’ hell freezes over. But if you love pain, go for it Geoff.
Notice, sadly I have started using those horrid imoji. Shows how much I despise the 🐎 💩 of super long break in times. Anything more than two days to sound ’pretty good’ is again PURE 🐎 💩 💩 💩 💩 💩 . I have no problem with a cable that can sound bad the first day, and then clean up to pretty good in two. And over weeks get to be magnificent. Cables that sound like cat urine smells.. for months? never.(again)
Stevens Point is far away from Milwaukee... But if you do ever go to Milwaukee, the best used record store to go to is Bullseye Records. 1627 E Irving Pl, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202. One plus is you can then drive down Farwell Ave (from Bullseye) a few blocks and find the East Side Exclusive Co. record store.            

Well, then the seller can drag out the buyer trying the cable for many weeks, even months, hoping the customer WILL GIVE UP. LOL
The above is ’tongue in cheek". I have no idea why. All I can say is.. after a month of it, Never again.. NEVER. I have been at this hobby for over 50 years, and that one cable was the one too far, for me to ever do it again. MY other experiences has been yeah sounds terrible.. a few hours, it changes and sound like it might be Ok.. By the end of two days yeah it is great. For ALL OTHER CABLES. SO now, if it sucks by end of day two it GOES BACK.... PERIOD.
Yeah I am ranting....
ADDED: i wonder if it is some kind of HAZING experience? So by going through it, the customer become one with the event, and thus will have to praise the stupid event or look like a fool? Plus they get to brag and sucker others into the same hazing event??? Also the person going through this thinks "I must be a special audiophile to have gone through this. And the cable must be extra super special since it takes so much effort. (When in fact any audiophile could buy another cable that sound just as good, and only take two days. ) But because they went through it, they think that cannot be.... (or all that effort was for nothing. Guess what.. it was for nothing.)
Bryston's James Tanner says, and PS Audio's Paul McGowan burn in the components ONLY so they don't break for the customer in the first few days. PERIOD. IT is a cost saving measure. They SAVE MONEY doing it. By not getting returns of brand new stuff that died from a defective part. I am certain that question of burn in was asked of Paul McGowan in his uTube q&a series, and he said it was for what I said, and not to break it in.
(The sad state of reading comprehension??) I stated that Paul Mcgowan said they burn in equipment for failure reduction. I NEVER said that Paul Mcgowan thought there was 'no such thing as burn in'.  BUT the company does not run equipment to burn in, it runs it to search for early failures so they do not get excessive returns.
Good luck!  I hope the results are meaningful. Be sure to let us know!!                  

Here is the link for those who lack the patience to dig around searching forever....https://www.dagogo.com/doug-schroeders-audiophile-law-6-thou-shalt-not-overemphasize-burn-in/       
After reading the article. my main criticism is they did this with just one component, a relatively low priced device. And that they assumed the not broken in device was not broken in. they admit it had some time already on it) So any extrapolation to the world of all devices is a stretch. But a nice attempt.      
ANd to say thee re variations in components. Some change a lot some not at all. So again one test does not offer enough to draw conclusions about all components.                    
As I have mentioned before. in particular cables, I have noted terrible sound from a Kimber Hero 7m XL at first use. (so much so I decided to return it, no question) but then after several hours it became less objectionable, and the next day was decent... So much so I reversed my decision to return it. The 'proof' it was not just getting used to it, as later on when I replaced the Hero with a 7m Parsec, which over a month failed to impress, Ad the dealer was repeatedly claiming just wait, let it break in.(so in effect proving I did not "just get used to" the previous Kimber over a few days.)
So one test, of two sets of components to test a 'theory' and you think that one event is enough to reach a conclusion "of all stereo components breaking in for all time". Seems that is the claim. you are trying to make here.                         
Now it you just say this was a single attempt to see if breakin matters,, and is only valid for these two Peachtree devices. OK. Otherwise?? LOL
Geoff, it has to do with selling the idea. Hey, free space to hand out flyers.. And it almost fits in.. It is about cables and stuff. You are the poster child for stuff that is not on topic...    
I just added five more PS Audio Noise Harvesters to my system. With seven of them, does seem to make a slight difference. Blacker blacks etc. MY new pet parakeets are settling in... What did you have for breakfast Geoff?
I am of the camp where if it sucks when you buy it. and a day or two at the most does not make it sound good. I return the pos  sorry, item.. for a refund. All the blather of hundreds of hours of break in? that is some body else' problem, not mine. It may be true a device or cable might sound better after a long time in use. but if it sucks in the meantime, not for me.
I've got UMPTY UMP YEARS.. Been UMPTING since 1965..               
Measurable system changes.. KABOOM!! dang that lightning was close... , the power went off. Gee there is NO SOUND. measurable (smarty pants)
The "cable hazing" experience only partially worked. Sadly for Morrow,  barnettk did not become a "Morrow Audio" club fanboy from the hazing experience... But good for barnettk.              
Glad the cable worked out for you. Good post too. Thanks.
Agree with Geoff. The burn in IO is the insulation changing.                
It is generally recognized that Teflon and it’s like take the longest to ’break in’.                             
Kimber makes cables which the only difference is the insulation, and those speaker (VS) and IC particularly Hero, but also KS, which HAVE MORE BASS. Same wire, different insulation, more bass.
You know Geoff, you could start a service to help with direction on cables..For a fee folks send you their cables and YOU figure out which way they go...          
I did not say I could not hear it.. (I have no idea if I can or cannot, since I have never tried, and am way to lazy to try it tonight, or tomorrow...)                      
I just offered a new way to make money.. You know... that stuff you use to buy things with...Or have you reached a point in life where money has lost it's meaning?
When cables sit unused.. Even if plugged in... They do become 'un-burned in'.. gradually. I have had unused cables, particularly from one of my phono setups I seldom use seem to need more than the usual time to sound good. I attribute this to 'un-biurn in'.   
Powercords, if left plugged in tend it NOT un-burn in, since they are powered up  and radiating electrical fields just being plugged in. So they usually, (if left plugged in the live AC line) stay good.IF the power cord in  not plugged in, it too will get un-burned in slowly. But in my experience less than most interconnects.   
For some IC and powercords, just moving them around, bending rebending them needs a little time to get back to the best.
Lifespan? I would say depends on if the copper or silver is exposed. and the sort of atmosphere it is exposed to. I know wires that are fully enclosed, even if there was a small amount of ’air’ do not tarnish!(Silver plated wires in plugs.. If the insulation seals the opening. the silver never tarnishes. However the same wire used a speaker cable turns black because it is exposed to fresh air all the time.Insulation can deteriorate. It may even start to react with the copper (remember the infamous Monster speaker cable turning green inside the clear jacket?)
One tweak to power cord plugs and RCA is to full the inside with liquid polyurethane to prevent it from ever tarnishing inside.(some builder do this standard) One could do the same to duplex points of connection to bare copper.(though I am certain some electrician rules say this cannot be done.)
((I have never had an in wall AC wire break off. never. I have cleaned off plenty of them though.)

Inside thirty year old components I have to say the AC hardwired copper wires seem to be universally damaged some by oxidation. but they WORK fine.
I still paint the edge of ALL CDs. DVDs with a black ring. Using a normal. cheap permanent marker pen. I long ago used a UniPosca green paint pen, But when I ran out of those I started to use the black marker. Just as good.
Does it help with better sound? Most times. Not always. pretty subtle.
The laser light bouncing around off the edge? yeah, it reduces the scatter.
I also rub the surfaces with old (ancient really) Audio Quest juice from small $0.25 packets. I bought a box of 100. And take a packet, dump it into a small square of cotton cloth. Then I use that.. one lasts a year, easy. I wasted a lot of the packets early.. on CD cases.. Still have about 15 packets left. 15 years worth...
                                           .
The main, and MOST IMPORTANT thing I do is use a cosmetic blush brush and brush off the back and front of every single CD SACD DVD I place in a player.Always, every time.Taking off the tiny dust which is what actually kills lasers. The lens.. The laser reads so close to the surface, it is like an invisible to the eye smoke particle or skin dander is a boulder to the lens.. BLAM BAM WHACK. constantly if you DO NOT clean the disc every time.
Amazing that Morrow would try to stonewall your returning the cord. That is terrible. I hope everyone reads that and realizes that Morrow are not keeping their 'word'. I would use harsher language but I do not want to have my post deleted for profanity. Let us know if they attempt to keep your money!
I would never apply anything to the inner edge. The transport holds the CD via the inner edge... and I do not want to get it gunked up with stuff from the CD. Green, black, on the outer edge... no problem to my ears. (My guess is the real 'problem' is the black marker costs a buck, the official green marker $30. Audiophile approved. LOL)
" Thus, one would only have to mark it once then just replay the "burned" file. "" ??????????                              
The color does not vanish after it is applied. Once you stick it on.. it is on! I have CDs I painted in 1990 or so. (maybe earlier, not sure) Still green edge...
Better a hard head than a muppet.. any day in my book.    
🐯 🔴🔴🔴 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑.......
Is Geoff is the guru of color on CD edges? No. He just likes to bamboozle people. Somehow he gets a kick out of convincing people of ... just about anything.
"" yea so to do an A/B comparison between the pre burned in cable and the post burn in cable I made a recording of a song I am very failure with to my reel to reel. ""                     
"failure" for familiar" Freud would have a field day with that slip. Just sayin'.                 
Sorry. Please ignore my mumblings...
Bravo!! Bravo!! great thread, great work, and a thorough effort. Thank you for all the work you put into this! Good luck!
I just replaced a dozen power cords. All the same brand/model, just different lengths. They were on sale, so I went crazy....  
Swapping them all with stock cords... (I don't even own the stock cords anymore..     
The real challenge would be toss in stock duplex receptacles...I now have Furutech. It would be really difficult to go back to stock.Plus I can change the sound of the system swapping just one powercord plug from one outlet to another. (Threshold FET 10 power supply) moving pug from a Furutech GTC-D Gold to a Furutech GTX NCF Rhodium. Rhodium brighter, clearer. Gold a bit darker, denser. and a bit veiled.
Why I leave most of my stereo on 24/7/365.Only things I keep turned off are the Conrad Johnson ACT2. (mainly due to the massive heat it produces for a preamp (normal) and the Audio Research SP-15 since I use it only for the phono, and leave it off unless I am listening to that turntable connected to it. And yes every time it takes a few hours to sound it's best.  
I do not own any AQ biased cables. but I am certain they do work as claimed.