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Skeptic or just plain hard headed

So I purchased a pair of Morrow Audio phono cables. These are the PH3 with the Eichmann connectors. Wanted to start there to see if MA cables will be a viable option for my system.I think my story is not so unique to others who have purchased MA cables. So no need to go into the hu hum of burn-in in regards to MA cables, and how things sound bad at first, then gets better,  then excellent...yada yada yada. I know the story about this product.  I simply am one who is not a believer in electronics break in periods, or battery packs on cables, etc... Regardless of what side of the fence you are on in regards to that Im NOT trying to start that debate again please.. Anyway. After reading several reviews of the MA cables and understanding that most agreed that the cables needed a substantial burn-in time, and that the cables would not sound its best until this happens I decided to give them a try. Thinking ok lets get a jump on the burn-in period (if the concept is true). I paid for the 2 day burn-in service from MA. What I didn't expect is that when I got the cable it would sound as bad as it did in comparison to my existing name brand cable (not getting into that either, not relevant). I thought well the cable might not quite be up to snuff with all this talk about burn-in (if its true) but not that much of a difference.  I mean as soon as I dropped the needle on the record I immediately heard a profound difference in sound stage and clarity degridation. Needless to say this cable was destined to be returned to MA for a full refund and my thinking was "they are crazy if I am going to trade my cable for this cable" So I decided to give MA a call to setup the return. Talked with Mike Morrow (very nice guy by the way) and we had our differences in what I should expect out of his product. Now my Mother always told me that I have a hard head.. I heard that growing up all my life, and when you couple that with skepticism it makes a pretty, well lets just say not a very fun person to have a debate with lol. However Mike insisted that if I return the cable that I would be missing out on the fruit they would bare after 400 hours of break in. 400 hours??? really!. Oh at that point I was really ready to return them. I told all my friends "Mike must be nuts" (no offense Mike) no way am I going to wait a year to hear what this cable is capable of, AND I do not have any way to expedite the process...at least I thought I didn't until I found an old sound bar I don't use anymore with analog inputs. Ok I know you pro MA and  pro cable burn-in folks are chomping at the bit. Im almost done. Take your hands off the keyboard for just a few more lines. 

So here is the deal to be fair I am going to be open minded about this because Mike really made me feel like I would be missing out if I return the cable without a proper burn-in (great salesman), and since he had such conviction I now think I have to test this thing out right??. Now I know that there are testimonials out there about how the MA cable improved over 100s of hours in their system, and that they are now "blown away". However can you really hear a profound difference in a cable you play in your system over 170 hours or so?  I would think a gradual difference would be harder to detect. I mean my system seems to sound better to me everyday without making any changes. Is it because of  continued cable and electronics burn in?? maybe. Or maybe its just my brain becoming more intimate with the sound of my system. Well this test I'm doing should reveal a night and day difference from what the system sounds like today with the cable pre burn-in if there is any merit to the notion. In regards to does it sound better than my existing cable that is yet to be determined. I think my goal now is to prove or dis-prove if cable burn-in is a real thing. This whole idea has evolved from if it's an improvement or not over what I use today. We can discuss that later.

I now have the cable connected between a cd player , and a sound bar with a CD playing on repeat. The disc of choice for this burn-in is rather dynamic so it should be a good test. At the end of 16 days (384 hours) I will move the cables to my reference system and do about another 20 hours of additional burn-in to compensate for moving the cable. This will put a total of 452 hours of burn-in on the PH3. When I put this cable back in my system I sure hope it sings because this is a lot to go through to add a cable to your system. Mike if you are right I will eat crow and will preach from the highest mountain top that you are right, and that cable burn-in is REAL.  For me anyway the myth will be considered busted or reinforce my belief that cable burn-in is a bunch of BS. 

For those who will argue the point of cable burn-in I fully understand the concept, and I don't plan to get sucked down that rat hole and I won't argue that....yet because at the end of this test I may be in your camp and I don't want to have a steady diet of crow so for now I will remain neutral on the subject until the test is complete.  However I will be totally transparent and honest about the results. So not trying to make anyone angry as I know beliefs about audio are sensitive subjects, and rightfully so this hobby is expensive and I like you have a substancial investment in this. Just trying to get to the truth. I also understand that cable burn-in may actually happen when you consider it from a scientific perspective, but the real question is can you actually hear the difference.  

I will report back to this thread in 17 days from today (need at least one day to evaluate) with the results. 

happy listening!!

-Keith
barnettk
douglas_schroeder
1,824 posts
 

barnettk, thank you for the complement. I used to be "hard headed" many years ago, then decided to try things rather than give an opinion. There have been many surprises, and what I learned about burn in was among them.

Currently I am engaged in an ongoing experiment, if you will, about a method I named the Schroeder Method of Interconnect Placement in which I use splitters to literally double the interconnect cables. See discussion of it at my article, Audio Blast: The Schroeder Method of Interconnect Placement, and also in the thread here in the cable forum with my name attached to it. You will likely find that to be challenging to logic, but simple comparison would yield quite a different result than what I expect the burn in test to yield.  (Not trying to sidetrack the entire discussion, just adding for your benefit, as you are now interested in my thoughts. But please see the warnings, caveats, etc. associated, i.e. with class D amps.)

There are some things in audio that result in different outcomes than one expects. Opinions abound, but fewer are those who actually try. It is the trying that has made the journey so amazing to me. :)

barnettk OP
295 posts
 
@douglas_schroeder I actually saw that article and started reading it. It looked rather interesting. Never thought to try that approach. I will finish the article and may have to give it try myself, pending if it was a favorable outcome.  I attempted to sign up on the site to comment but the site is not allowing new members I suspect. There is a a lot of interesting reads so it would be fun to join those conversations. 
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
Here is the link for those who lack the patience to dig around searching forever....https://www.dagogo.com/doug-schroeders-audiophile-law-6-thou-shalt-not-overemphasize-burn-in/       
After reading the article. my main criticism is they did this with just one component, a relatively low priced device. And that they assumed the not broken in device was not broken in. they admit it had some time already on it) So any extrapolation to the world of all devices is a stretch. But a nice attempt.      
ANd to say thee re variations in components. Some change a lot some not at all. So again one test does not offer enough to draw conclusions about all components.                    
As I have mentioned before. in particular cables, I have noted terrible sound from a Kimber Hero 7m XL at first use. (so much so I decided to return it, no question) but then after several hours it became less objectionable, and the next day was decent... So much so I reversed my decision to return it. The 'proof' it was not just getting used to it, as later on when I replaced the Hero with a 7m Parsec, which over a month failed to impress, Ad the dealer was repeatedly claiming just wait, let it break in.(so in effect proving I did not "just get used to" the previous Kimber over a few days.)
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
I’ve oft mentioned this on similar threads - that it would be exceedingly difficult to determine the sole effects of burn-in of cables or any other audio thing, speakers perhaps especially, since there are simply too many variables that affect the sound, even day to day and week to week. Or to attribute all changes to burn in. Variables include those that aren’t normally considered or aren’t deemed very important. I am quite sure we don’t know all the variables that affect sound quality. If someone says, oh, the sound was better in such and such ways after two weeks does that mean he’s done nothing whatsoever to his system in all that time, just waited around for burn in changes to occur? You mean he just sits there and watches the paint on the wall peel? Who keeps careful logs? Answer at 11.
barnettk OP
295 posts
 
Well regardless of the outcome One thing I can say that this whole experience has done for me is convince me that not all cables sound the same. So I have at least been able to  dismiss the whole coat hanger theory. Not to get to far off topic and start a different debate but I used to think that there should not be much difference between two pieces of cooper to the point that you have to spend an enormous amount of money on cables. I would like to add that I have also learned that dollar amount does not necessarily equate to better sound. Case and point, the cable I was considering replacing with the MA cable is an Audioquest Mackenzie. The Mackenzie cost half as much as the MA cable but the MA cable did not even come close to the AQ cable in sound quality (in my system). Douglas also brings up a excellent point that component matching even down to the cable level is also very important. It may be that the MA cable would sound better under different circumstances matched with different gear/ICs. So in my case the MA cable might just not be a good choice for MY system. To his point about making large changes as opposed to small changes...If I had maybe replaced all the cables down stream with MA cables maybe I would have had a different initial experience. Who knows. To an earlier point Elizabeth made moving forward I plan to now audition several different cables for this upgrade and go with the one that sounds better out of the box and stick with that. After all it should only get better from there as I become more intimate with the sound of the change (notice I did not say burn in)
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