Sound Quality of red book CDs vs.streaming

Still most recordings are still poor and limited. So if you play them by CD, streaming or a recordplayer. It all will not help you. Here is still the weakest point.

Does it have to do with money?

For the biggest part I would say: No.

There are many small studios who can make really good recordings. And they do not own the best equipment. It depends more about the skills and knowledge of the people who are responsible for the recordings.

We are a lot more than a retailer. I have worked in audio shops as well. I have even run a shop. But the limitations of it made me aware that this is not the way to go.

I wanted to bring both sound&vision to a superior level. This needs a totally different approach. So I started to spend a lot more time in research and tests. Consulting in sound&vision is also so much more fun than working in an audioshop.

I have seen in over 20 years how limited audioshops are in result. So I wanted to create something what could bring a superior level than the poor level people get by trial and error.

I met hundreds of people with trial and error systems. And they all own lmited systems with too many faults in it. Over 95% owned very little music. This proofs that trial and error is very ineffective. With those people I had a good conversation admitted they never had been happy with their system.

I think it is difficult to become very happy with any trial and error system with faults. I always say: each fault is one too many. It will always limit them in a high level in intensity and emotion.

Statement Audio Pro-measurement is the biggest step to a world of freedom without the limitations of the acoustic problems of a room. But also the research in smog, magnetisme and highfrequent noise made us solve many more faults in each system.

When I see and hear where we are now. 10 years ago I could not even think or imagine that it all would be possible. I created so many huge steps and improvements. What makes the world in sound&vision so much nicer.

I want to make clear that streaming quality of Qobuz and Tidal is not bad. I think for most it is more than acceptable. I have many clients who use it.

I only use it when new clients want to listen to a particular artist or song I do not own.

But the Modified Lumin L1 drive with the modified SBooster is about 80% better in result. When you compare the same music between streaming by Tidal and Qobuz and the modified Lumin L1 (with modified SBooster) the level in excitement and emotion is far superior.

When I showed the difference between it at our clients their house the reactions where priceless. It are the smiles you see on their faces and becoming a kid again.

Audio at a superior level is so addictive. And this is what we want to share with as many people as possible all over the world!!

You can buy music form studios as well these days. But I will give you some tips to find your own music you like.

I use an Audioquest Dragonfly Red with an Sony Inear of 900 dollar. I listen to new music for about 3-4 hours each single week.

I always try to buy the best quality avaliable.

What is the most effective way to find new music?

You go to Youtube and you fill in above the artist or song you love. Youtube will show on the right side similar music you filled in. This way I did find many new artists and songs I love and bought.

Qobuz has by far the biggest demand in music you can buy. All other websites together have even less music for sale. They are also by far the cheapest in buying music in the world. When you buy a streaming subscription from them the music you can buy from them is a lot cheaper.

After I find the new artist I go to Qobuz to see if they have this music for sale.

Each week I also take a look at new music what came out that week. I always listen to many different genres.

I mentioned it before, ProStudioMasters has many albums in hi-res no other company has for sale. So I always look overhere if Qobuz does not have it in Hi-res for sale.

DSD is by far the best quality you can buy on the internet. I own different DSD 512 recordings and they are from another planet. But there is not that much titles for sale.

* Always try to buy most music you really like, Music you buy to impress friends based on the recordings quality which are stunning will not make you happy after a longer period of time. So be aware of that!

So where to buy DSD?

- Acoustic Sounds
- Native DSD.com
- Highresaudio.com

Overhere you also find titles in different genres which they only have in hi-res.

-HDtracks, I sometimes look overhere. But the same music you buy from Qobuz is better in quality and always cheaper. Sometimes they have titles in hi-res no other has. Then I buy it overhere.

- 7digital.com also sometimes has music no other one has for sale.

Where to find titles the above websites do not own?

- Bandcamp
- junodownload

* You can go to google; fill in the name of the artist and the word flac/wav download. And this way I also could find music what was difficult to find.

Is Hi Res PCM/DSD/MQA always better than a good 16 bit-44.1 khz recording?

The answer is no, I have a lot of stunning recordings in 16 bit 44.1khz which are even better than good Hi Res recordings and DSD recordings.

Is each recording you buy in Hi-Res a good quality?

The answer is no again. Most new hi-Res recordings are often limited and poor. In the world of the loudness war many recordings are screwed.

There are a lot of improvements needed in the world of recording as well. We have also ideas to improve this and we will share this in 2019 as well.

Enjoy your chirstmas and time with those you love.

Audioengr,

When you say “commercially available,”.  In what form?
Hard drive? CD?

I always assumed we were listening to the  CD ripped to their servers as the source. I wouldn't  think  these streaming  companies  had access  to any master tapes. 
+ 2 on Bo , I am glad I'm  not  the only  one  who  wondered WTF 

Wtf,
  regarding Bo +1

Sorry @rvpiano .. interesting thread btw. 

Bo .. I've read many of your posts and still haven't a clue what the hell you are talking about. You never actually offer any information about your mods or measurements. You do however always seem to mention being more knowledgeable and experienced than everyone else in the audio business. Here's what I have gathered about you .. you are not a manufacturer but a retailer, custom installer, and modder. Nothing wrong with that but I think you need to back up what you blather on about with facts not verbosity. I would suggest you speak plainly and simply to us who are less enlightened.

Just to get back to the original post of this thread for a moment.
Does anyone know what source is being used for streaming tracks?
Do record companies allow their master tapes to be used?

Bo knows!! Merry Christmas to all and to all Tru-Fi audio! Hohoho.

No, but the stage what the more expensive Astell&Kern can create with Jerry Harvey Audio headphones is in stage still bigger than all 2-D systems.

I test new products all the time. We want to know the DNA, we are always looking for products who can reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound.

The biggest limitation in audio is that most audioproducts are 2-dimensional. In the Tru-Fi world this means that the level in stage depth is 1 meter or less. I decided not to talk about brands anymore. Because people overhere often feel offended when I talk about brands that are 2D or miss other aspects/properties of sound.

I will never talk about those brands again which are incomplete regarding missing aspects/properties of sound anymore. So I will not answer any question when people ask me if a brand or product is able to reveal all the aspects/properties of sound.

Because it is not my responsibility which aspects/properties of sound they can reveal. Manufacturers need to take care of the quality of their own products. So they are responsible for this. We will only talk about the brands we use and modify. We will take care of those brands. And no I will not talk about these brands at this moment either.

As humans we can perceive sound in a 3-dimensional spectrum. So it would be more than normal that audio systems would be able to create a 3-dimensional stage. But....the facts proof (and they count) that most brands and products are still 2-dimensional.

In 2017 I tested different fuses. And even most fuses are 2-dimensional. When I play digital audio I use 3 different powersupplies. When I used one fuse who owns a 2D stage, I almost lost all the stage depth of my system. And the individuel focus of voices and instruments was also very limited.

It proofs how difficult it is to create a stunning 3-dimensional stage. Because it is an imporant part of Tru-Fi. You cannot make even 1 mistake to limit the stage depth of a system. When I visit an audio show I always count the faults they make.

I walk in a room and I see the products they use, So I see the DNA. I see how they placed it in the room. And I start counting the mistakes they all make. This goes automatically. When they start playing music the list of mistakes grows bigger.

I always focus on the faces of people and I become aware that they cannot see all those individual mistakes they made. It is not on their radar and it never will be on their radar. Based on the fact that they do not own the insight and knowledge what is needed to understand it.

People often ask me if it is possible to learn how I work. I would need young intelligent people and they are prepared to spend thousands of hours to learn it. It is like programming your brain. Knowledge and insight is something you need to learn all by yourself.

Einstein: “Only one who devotes himself to a cause with his whole strength and soul can be a true master. For this reason mastery demands all of a person”

Since 1998 I had a lot of contact with different specialists. And I still have a lot of contact with specialists in different areas. But....at the end you need to do all the research yourself. But this is what I love and it never costs me a lot of energy. It is in my system and a part of who I am as a person.

Now the end of 2018 is there. We made the biggest steps ever before in both sound&vision. My insight and knowledge becomes bigger each single year. It makes it easier each year to understand it. The speed I can create new upgrades and improvements is growing all the time. It is like you are standing on a higher platform.

After time you can see more information and details which makes it more easy to understand it. The time has come to share it with manufacturers. We want to share it with different manufacturers at different price levels. For us it is important that many people will have the benefit of it.

We also will create a platform in both dutch and in english. We bought a Sony professional 4K camera with different separate professional lenses and different professional microphones. We will show how we work. And we will talk about different products and systems.

It is something what no one does in our world at this moment. It goes so much further in details than you all ever have seen before. We also will give many upgrades and modification options available. Now we only use it for our own clients. But it will become available for everyone.

We modify amps, preamp, sources and powersupplies a lot. But we also started to modify Oled screens. And we can use it for Qled and led screens as well. The results are stunning. We can create a superior level in vision based on our modifications and calibration no other company can even come close.

Also in vision we did a lot of research regarding the influence of smog, magnetism and highfrequent noise to vision. Here we also have a lot of different tools to improve it.

Recently we started to modify subwoofers as well. And in 2019 we will do a lot of more different products as well.

We will introduce Tru-Fi and will proof that we do sound&vision at a new level in quality and result never heard and seen before. For an extreme born perfectionist it is all about outperforming and be better than the best there is now. See it as a mindset and choice you make.

Of course headphones cannot project that big soundstage way out in front of you like speakers can (ideally) but on the plus side headphones can be very transparent and provide that special you are there sound with the right recordings. The performers can be out in front of you on occasion. Many studio recordings that give “performers in the head” sound with headphones provide a relatively unconvincing soundstage. It’s a trade off. What headphones tend to have in spades is dynamics and detail, whilst avoiding the potentially steep cost associated with room treatments, space, electronics, speakers, cables. And years of effort. 😬

I know a lot of people who work in the world of audio. I have no idea of the people who visit Audiogon so now and then are aware that most reviews are paid ones these days. And that they write things what is not the truth.

When I speak to new clients many of them buy things based on reviews. So it proofs how easy it is to make people believe that those reviews are true. Most maganzines or websites live from that money.

But the question is: do you care more about the money than being honest?

I think far over 95% will choose for the money. I am 180 degrees the opposite of these people. But makes this me a better person?

I don’t see myself as a better person. I am who I am and do things my way. I can only do it this way. Like the people who own a company in audio or a magazine in audio first focus on being able to pay the people who work for them.

I would never want to change my life with theirs. Because I believe and focus on long term thinking. The audio industry is decreasing now for many years in a row. I think and believe that trial and error will make it decrease even more.

Trial and error will not create a better quality for consumers. It is and will always be very ineffective to create a quality what never will become stunning. And I think and believe that only a superior level in quality and emotion can change a demand.

Tru-Fi proves that many people who auditioned it wants to own it. Tru-Fi also proved that women are interested in audio. And like to use the system of their partner. Women have a better developed hearing than men own.

But....men have a lot more interest in audio equipment than women have. But....when you talk about music, women also like music. I did run an audio shop and I had a 2-dimenional system always ready for shootout. And a 3-dimensional system ready for shootout.

Most women never liked to be there and give their opinion about a system or loudspeaker. They where only there for the looks. But.....what I learned was when I demoed and presented the 3-dimensional system to women. They could become enthusiastic as well.

Women are more demanding in quality compared to men. Even children are not interested in trial and error systems. But...when we ask children to listen to a Tru-Fi system, we see the same kind of reaction by women. Each person likes emotion and needs emotion.

But....most trial and error sytems are poor in emotion. Many people are not interested anymore in an incomplete system what only can reveal a limited level in emotion. I understand them all, I would not be interested in it as well.

I had the luck that I could be busy with audio 80 hours a week. I had the freedom to use everything we sold. I had in 1999 already a highend system what was a lot more expensive than the products we sold.

But I could lend everything I wanted from distributers. I was lending expensive stuff all the time. It is like a child in a candy store. And you have the freedom to try everything you would like.

Live music made me understand sound and music a lot better. A friend of mine had a room for 60 people with a Steinway wing. He gave classical concerts. These days I use those concerts a lot for Tru-Fi.

Here I learned that voices and instruments are very direct and small. I call it intimate focus. I can demo this with music. When you have a 2-dimensional system and a 3-dimensional system at the same place. You can learn people that when an audiosystem is able to reveal depth, voices become more close to you and stands fully free in space.

When you play the same song in a 2-dimensionals system. What is sold in over 99% in audioshops.The conenction with the instruments and voices are gone. People often describe it as: the music stands further from me.

I can let people experience this with conservatorium students. After this I will demo a Tru-Fi system. So they will understand that it creates the same kind of emotion and the feeling of a more intimate experience.

This has a huge influence on our emotion. What I do these days, is that I talk about one property of sound. And I will use music so people will understand what this property can do with your emotion.

The people who own a Tru-Fi system understand so much better why a recording is recorded the way it sounds. A Tru-Fi systems can reveal all the different aspect of sound so much more easy. These clients do not want to go to audio shows anymore.

They get irritated very fast when they audition an incomplete system. It doesn’t make sense for them anymore. I give you an example. 2 months ago there was an audio show in my country.

They had 70 rooms with audio systems. Different clients of mine visit this event. They said: 68 systems where 2-dimensional. This is what trial and error creates. They will never take these systems serious ever in their life again.

This is what Tru-Fi does with people. There are not a lot of loudspeakers for sale in the world who also can create diversity in height. In Munic highend audio there was only one system what was able to reveal diversity in height. But this one costs over 700.000 euro.

Diversity in height not only let you hear the differences in height of voices and instruments. It also creates a much better harmonic sound of a recording. This even has a big influence on our emotion. Also this we can learn people what it is and what it does to their emotion.

We judge each system and single product on all the different aspects/properties of sound. And when one or more aspects/properties are missing I am not interested anymore. Each incomplete audioproduct will always create a limitation.

geoffkait understands it very well. And yes portable audio with a headphone is a lot easier to create a stunning level in sound without acoustic limitations.

When I audition a more expensive Astell&Kern (even a SP1000) with a Jerry Harvey audio headphone it is really stunning. I would prefer this over almost any trial and error created system.

My clients ask me often what to do when I would not be there anymore. They never want to go back to a trial and error system without S.A.P.-measurement ever. I advised them to sell everything and go to portable.

Trial and error systems with acoustic limitations is not a nice world you would want to live in for a long time. 4 weeks ago we had discussions with different distributers and manufacturers about that audio is often not a nice hobby?

They all agreed, they meet the people like we do. And most are more busy wihgt their system than with music. I visited hundreds of systems of people. And the thing what had the most impact on me is how less music most people own.

Without music audio is useless and never worth the money you did spend. I give an example, in 2006 I met a person wiht a system of over 80.000 euro. He owned 40 cd's. So I said to him: I cannot help you?

He was surprrised about my reaction and said: I don't hope I invited you for nothing.

I said; that will not be the case. But...I cannot help you when you only own 40 cd's. The money you spend will never be worth it when you just own 40 cd''s.

He was surprised about my reaction. And yess I can be very direct. You always get the truth even when you didn't ask for it. Because I don't believe in a fake world full of lies.

He agreed that he was not happy. I said; even when I improve your system you still will not be happy. I tried to explain to him that without music audio is 100% ueseless. And after some time he understood what I meant. And said; I think you are right.

I always want to help people. You only can really help other people when you are 100% honest. I want people to become aware that sometimes  their decisions they made limit them in their happiness. We see that working by Tru-Fi made all people use their system so much more.

I only work and believe in making audio systems complete regarding the aspects/properties of sound. I have seen and met many people with incomplete audio-systems. And often with a lot of acoustic limitations. And no one was happy. I will never accept incomplete audiosystems. I would directly stop doing what I do now.

In my world each person owns a system what can reveall all the details and aspects/properties of each recording. And without acoustic limitations. Music is for me the most emotional thing you can buy and experience. That is why it is my goal to give this to everyone who would like to own it.

@bo1972,
What kind of trail does Tru-Fi leave behind? Is it by error? Just curious.

When I judge all the other roomacoustic systems there are, I would not even used one of them. In my world they are all useless based on Tru-Fi.

The facts proof the way they measure and the systems they use, they all have too many limitations.

So what are those limitations?

They all loose details in the whole freq. range. What is unacceptable in my world. They all have compression limitations. We don't have these limitations. This is my insight and knowledge and when you want to use it, you are going to pay.

When I would not have a photographic memory in sound. Or I would not be able to reveal the DNA of each single part I would never had been able to understand it and create it. It is that simple. Then I would have done sound&vision just like the rest of the world by trail and error.

I have always had contact with different  specialists since 1998. Without these people I would never had been so far as we are now at this moment. I needed their insight  and knowledge to be able to understand sound as in its entirety.

The biggest problem in audio is that no one understands sound as a whole. Sound is so much more complex than people can even imagine. I have been aware of this for a long time. This is why I contacted different specialists. 

Manufacturers now understand when I talk to them that they do not understand sound as a whole. They cannot answer the questions which are needed to understand sound. They never have thought so deep in details as I have thought about it. This is the main reason why they cannot answer these questions.

I learned a lot thanks to live music. That is why I will use conservatorium students by presentations in 2019. This makes it a lot more easy for me to explain what intimate sound is and does. And even what 3-dimensional sound is and does to our emotion. 

This makes it possible for me to show that I copy the way sound and instruments sound and behave in a room. And that Tru-Fi sound simmilar to this. 

We can create our own targetcurve with our Statement Audio Pro-measurement. We recently introduced the latest version of our S.A.P.-measurement. It is the biggest step we ever made from the former measurement to a new one. 

S.A.P.- measurement proofs how much more you can get out of a poweramp. This also proofs that what we call 'a 1980 amp or preamp' is very limited in endresult. Each amp or preamp owns a targetcurve. But you cannot change it. And what people do is they gamble with cables to create an improvement by trail and error. 

This will always be very ineffective. Tru-Fi overrules it as it it is audio for little children. The latest version of S.A.P.-measurement proofs that it can adapt the sound based on all the dna of each part what is connected to a system. When we do a measuerment all the parts we use during a measurement influence the endresult.

What I means is that it can adapt the endresult to the dna of the amp(s), loudspeakers and cables which are connected. This is why it can outperform any 1980 poweramp or pre amp. I call an amp or preamp without a measurement-system a 1980 amp or preamp.

They still work rather the same way as they did in 1980. When we visit a show or new clients the facts proof that often there is nothing adapted regarding smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism. Even when people have spend 300.000 dollar or more, it never will help you with the influences of these limitations.

The facts proof that people in audio have very limited insight and knowledge regarding smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism. When you take a look at the brands who have a roomacoustic measurement system they often make the same kind of mistakes.

So it proofs that they copy the way of measuring from eachother. I can proof on facts that the way they measure is the level of a child. They are not able to understand how you need to measure. Trail and error will never make you understand what you do.

They cannot see the connections why the way they measure does not make sense. But in my world it is very easy to understand what they do wrong. I can hear the limitations they create by the way they measure. But they don't see it. I call this audioblindness. It is not even on their radar. 

They do not own a brain to be able to think and make decisions based on connections. When they would have had a brain what sees these connections they would 100% never made these mistakes. For me audio is like a Formula 1 car. I want to improve it all the time and over and over again. To create an even higher level or result for me is like dope.

I have to admit that music is the most addictive thing in life for me. But.....creating sound is the second thing in what I love most. Creating new levels in sound&vision for me is so addictive. Tru-Fi makes it possible for me to make improvements very easy and this never stops.

Tru-Fi is like an enigma machine, you can see it as 3 wheels what can be changed in different combinations.

Wheel 1 are all the different aspects/properties of sound
Wheel 2 are all the parts who infleucnes sound and stage
Wheel 3 are the the aspects which influence the human emotion.

I can make many different combinations with them to create new data. This is how I work. I create new data and compare it with the old data. And when it is better based on all the aspects/properties of sound it becomes the new reference in that part.

This is what I do constantly. Like auditioning new products. To see and hear if they can reveal all the different apects/properties of sound. Each product what is incomplete (misses different aspects/properties of sound) we never will use or sell these products. This counts for over 99% of all audioproducts. This proofs how difficult it is to find the perfect DNA.

bo1972"Audio is a profession but most people who work in this would have never understood that."

Audio is a profession for an engineer but it is not for someone like you who is a retailer and there is a problem with Tru-Fi as we have discussed because you have refused, resisted, and avoided addressing the ICSS Factor that I discussed with you and until you comprehend, understand and accommodate ICSS factor into your music reproduction system installations your work will be inadequate, incomplete, and inconsistent in performance.

Audio is a profession but most people who work in this would have never understood that. Maybe I never met any person who spend that much time as I did in over 20 yaers of time.

That is not the problem or you cannot blame them. But doing both sound&vision by trial and error proof on facts that they are all lazy and own a limited level in insight and knowledge.

Now when I talk with people who also work for a long time in audio it is very easy to make them all understand that trial and error has no foundation. They all agree, so I ask them; what they F. do you think you are doing.

The 3th of july 1998 what my first day when I started to work fulltime in audio I knew (I was aware) that I had to learn what the dna/footprint is of each individual part. So I started to learn in properties of sound.

Now 20 years later it looks like the whole F. world have been sleeping in those 20 years of time. Because the facts proof (all manufacturers and distributers agree) that they work by trial and error. And now they all understand that is has no F. foundation.

It proofs on facts how low the level in awareness is of most human beings. And if you think or believe that I think and believe I am Jesus or special. You are all wrong. I think that what we do is normal and they way it should be done.

For me the difficult part in life is that I see and experience most things as neutral or as a given. But....I life in a world where most human beings see and experience things as positive or negative. That is why people always defend their system or product when I write something they don’t like to read.

Come on, grow up. We are talking about luxery products. This is not a matter of life and dead. Try to learn to look further. In 2019 we will start helping manufactuters to create better products for consumers. So they will get a much better quality for the money they spend.

If you all think and believe that I do this for myself. Again you are 100% all wrong. I only can do this based on the fact that I want others to get a better result. Without my clients I would have stopped a long time ago. When we say; we take care of all our clienst. This is exactley as I wrote it.

We are there to support them. They can call me each single day. Even at christmas. I will be there to support them whenever they need me. We live in a world who is getting more selfish and egoistic each single year. We loose the connection with eachother.

We want to proof the benefit. We believe in a better world for all people. And those whi have nothing need the most support. It is my personal goal to create a foundation for those who have nothing.

I only could spend all those thousands of hours in both sound&vision so I cooudl one day start my foundation for those who have nothing. All these years this was my goal. Without this I would never had the dedication and effort to do it.

I wish you all a great christmas and a happy 2019. I hope to see you in 2019 so you all can experience what Tru-Fi is. And how Statement Audio Pro-measurement can bring you all to much higher endresult.

I think system variations and opinions on this matter will vary greatly. I have two CD players in two audio systems and have compared the sound of those to my Node 2 streaming ripped CDs. Most often the ripped versions sound slightly better, but maybe the noise of the CD spinner or something else is a factor. My NAS is in another room from my audio room. When I stream via the Node 2, I think Tidal albums sound as good as my CD players, but with Tidal MQA albums, it edges out my CD player with about 80% of the content I find. I cannot argue with Bo1972 (poster above) since he is some kinda audio god and knows everything about Tru-fi.

And yes the acoustic has the biggest influence on sound and stage. In the Tru-Fi world acoustic limitations are gone. When we visit a new client or we go to an audio show we go back in time for 20 years of time.

It looks like they all have been sleeping. We will share our Statement Audio Pro-measurement with different manufacturers in 2019. In the last 8 years I have spend by far the most time regarding research in the acoustic influences of rooms.

Statement Audio Pro-measurement is by far the most influantial tool in audio available. And it will bring audio to a much higher level than what is possible at this moment.

Beside the acoustic. We have done a lot of research since 2015 regarding smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism. And also in these parts we made huge steps in using many different accessoires. And we evfn use it in our modifications.

It creates a superior level in effectiveness. The cost are lower than what can be achieved by other tools for the same money.

I have contact a few times a week with a person who owns the biggest technical support company in my country.

They do technical support for: Lumin, Pass Labs, Marantz, Onkyo, Denon Primare, Mark Levinson, Audio Research and many more.

We talk a lot about the parts they use these days inside their amps, sources etc. The parts are getting cheaper each single year. And these are the facts and they count. This is why audio doesn’t get any better.

An excellent selling point for headphones. 

Yet, 50% of the sound is attributable to the room.  Room acoustics are more important on a percentage basis than a modified Lumin1.  The totality of the audio system equipment, media and tweaks is half the sound.  I'd like to know how your sound room was constructed to meet the 50% portion of the absolute best sound in the world?

I will try to explain it. All people who sell audio products have a totally different focus than I have. It is not even comparable. They all work by trail and error. So they all connect a Lumin with an amp, loudspeakers and cables togheter.

And again we are talking about facts. But when I would ask them: what is the DNA of a Lumin? Or what are the differrent properties/aspects of sound a Lumin can reveal or does not own?

They all have no idea. Based on the fact that their insight is not able to think by properties. No do they see the different connections between each single part within an audio system.

We know in details the full DNA of a Lumin networkplayer. Because we choose it by DNA. So we know how to create and use the full potential of it. As we know which cables and other accessoires you can use and which you cannot use.

We use the menu and settings even different than all other companies who sell Lumin products. We modify all Lumin Players and even the Lumin L1 drive. This creates a superior level compared to each Lumin out of a box.

Audio shops sell Lumin players out of a box by trial and error. And again we are talking about a 100% fact. No person in the world can deny or change that. Sometimes I send new clients to a shop to audition the same Lumin as they want to audition at our place.

I already know the outcome even before I have send them to the other shop. The level out of the same Lumin (even without a modification) is superior by Tru-Fi compared to the same Lumin in any audioshop on this planet.

You and all shops see it as a product. It is just a Lumin out of a box. In our world we are only interested in the DNA of a Lumin. When you use a Lumin by Tru-Fi the level in effectiveness is far superior to the limited level you can reach by trail and error.

I give you another example, when an audio shop visits their clients to install an audio system or a part of it. They bring in a few screwdrivers, a measuring tape. And sometimes a leveler. When they install a new flatscreen they come with simmilar tools.

Now our world. When we install an audio system or an part we come with the most advanced high tech measurement equipment and tools of over 7000 dollar.

When we come to install a flatscreen again we come with the most advanced calibration software in the world with the best tools of over 7000 dollar. The tru-fi world is a world what goed so much further in details than the limited trail and error world ever will and can go.

Superiority is a choice you make as a company. We have to goal and ambition to be the best in our world. Insight and knowledge you only can create by research and testing. And we are talking about thousands of hours. And this never stops and will go on untill I quite.

So now I hope you will understand that a Lumin out of a box is a totally different Lumin by Tru-Fi.

I have been putting off getting a music server, I really like owning the physical CD.  For the last few years I was listening to a hard drive with my CDs ripped to FLAC via computer through my OPPO player and DAC.  While the sound and overall convenience was great it really was a PITA to unplug the drive and plug it into a PC to add music.  

I finally caved in and bought a BlueSound Vault 2i and although I just set it up I can say I think it was a worthwhile purchase.  Set up was super easy, I was playing songs from my drive , listening to internet radio, sending music from my tablet to it via Blutooth...   this thing is like the Swiss Army knife of gadgets.  

@bo1972  

You still haven't answered my question. So to you the Lumin is an absolute best (best of the best) and the all the other brands are garbage or is Lumin the best in their price points? 

The greatest thing about Tru-Fi is that it creates a level in quality what is affordable for many more people. It proofs that you can get a system what brings you closer to the music for a lot less money.

People have no idea how much the acoustic, smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism limits the effectiveness of each part in your system. You only have accesss to a very limited level of the full potential of each part.

And again we can proof this with sound over and over again. The sound will always proof the truth. The highend shows in Munic proof each single year that money will never help you or give you a stunning level in sound quality.

Diversity (layering) in sound has the biggest influence on our emotion. So even a mono loudspeaker what is able to create a good level in layering in sound will make us experience emotion during listening to music.

But when you let people hear a system what can reveal all the details and aspects of a recording the experience will become a lot more intense.

I first got the audio/music bug at 5 years old when listening to my uncle's 5 way mono box speaker system with a 15" woofer powered by Heathkit pre-amp and amp and an AR turntable back in 1961.  Sure, it wasn't high resoultion or stereo.  So what?  It was both gorgeous sounding and super dynamic for his average size living room.  I always requested visiting his home to hear his 500 record collection from doo-wap, to opera, classical and pop.  All in glorious mono.

I have experienced the apparent superiority of DVDs, Blurays and 4K blurays to streaming 1080 and 4K videos over the internet on a Sony 940D 75" monitor (I employ higher end cabling and a Synergistic Research black duplex with Stillpoints for vibration control under the non-video monitor equipment).  Maybe I just need a better streamer (at 300 Mbs speed) but I prefer the media to the streaming.  I still enjoy streaming video.  

As to audio, I prefer the physical media as well but don't have the streaming capabilities of the video system.  I listen to 78s, LPs and CDs.  I say that my video system is closer to perfection for visual enjoyment than my audio system.  Yet I spend hours per day/night listening to music rather than watching TV.   I get such a high level of emotion out of my audio system that I long to listen to music daily.  I'm addicted to music more than I am to equipment despite being an audiophile.  I rarely change equipment, only tweaks (cables, acoustic treatments and vibration controls).  What I lack in ultimate resolution (such as rampant among the newest high end speakers), I have in tone qualilty, harmonic layering, dynamics and rhythm/pace of the music.  It a sign of how good it is when friends and acquaintances don't want to leave when listening to music in my home-they are immersed in a sonic wonderland.  

Audio is all about sound. And sound contains of different properties. We are not talking about rocket science.

Tru-Fi proofs on facts that people use their systems a lot more and even for a much longer time at the same moment. The biggest limitation in audio is the acoustic influence of a room.

We created Statement Audio Pro-measurement. It not only limits the problems caused by the room. It gives us access to a bigger freq. response. And a lot more layers in the whole freq. range.

Diversity in sound is the most important property based on the fact that it has the biggest influence on our emotion.

The harmonics in sound are very important to experience the emotion of music. And again this has nothing to do with a personal taste. When an audio system can reveal more layers in the whole freq. range it will effect the human emotion a lot more.

When I read this thread, many experience cd-players as more musical. And I understand them all. But....it is based on the fact that many dacs and networkplayers are so limited in diversity in sound. This is not due to streaming. We tested many dacs and networkplayers.

Many where poor in diversity in sound. This is the main reason why a lot of people still use their cd-players. When a source has an inbuild dac, it is a lot more easy to create diversity (layering) in sound.

USB is an imporant reason why many people experience their music lacking emotion. Again this has nothing to do with personal taste. The facts proof that it limits the level in layering in sound. And again it can be easily proven by shootout and sound.

Tru-Fi systems outperform incomplete trail and error systems. Over and over again as often you would like to hear. Due to the superior level in intensity and emotion. People should start to read about sound and also about our brain regarding the emotion we experience with music.

It will make you aware and be able to understand audio a lot better than you understand it at this moment. Audio needs parameters so it becomes more easy for people to understand what sound is and does to our emotion.

When you add a different loudspeaker, source, cable, amp or cable, you add new DNA. So it influence the sound and stage differently. But...when you have no idea what is changed and why. You are making choices by pure guessing.

The real reason why so many people are not satisfied with their system is based on the lack of different properties of sound who are missing. And even this can be proven by sound. Trial and error is audiogambling. This makes it very easy to understand why the systems are far from perfect.

They own a low level in emotion, and again we are talking about facts!

Tru-Fi.  Give me a break already.  There is no absolute truth in anything, let alone sound reproduction.  Those who think there is some kind of "perfect truth" that only can be brought out using the most "accurate system" are wrong.

I would advise anybody to get this notion out of their head and proceed along more sensible lines.

It can be vexing to pick out the "perfect" system.  Depending on why you are reproducing music in the first place, that "perfect" goal is a moving target.  I have a number of audio systems available for me to listen to; different needs can be best addressed with different systems.

My advice is to first determine what you are trying to accomplish.  Are you looking for a car stereo?  Home Theater?  Kitchen radio?  Headphone system?  The second step is to go out and listen to different gear that is designed for those identified applications.  You may end up with a Meridian Signature Studio system in your car, a Focal Sib Evo home theater, a Tivoli radio for your kitchen, and a Schiit Stack with some Senn 800s for you headphone listening.  You might end up with BAT electronics and a pair of Wilsons for your 2-channel system in your listening room.  They will all sound different, none of them will be "true" to anything, and they can all be eminently satisfying for the application they were designed for.

The thing I love most about audio is outperforming. A born perfectionist always wants to win and outperform all other competitors.

Audio works by shootout. And each human being will always choose the sound what influence their emotion the most. That is why we work by Tru-Fi.

"True Fidelity, either" Tru-Fi "

Tru-Fi gives us access to all the details and aspects of each recording. 

Each product and even brands own their DNA. When you look at the differerent aspects/propertis of sound, we can extract each single product on the DNA it owns.

Most audio products cannot reveal all the different aspects of sound. Because they do no own them. And what is misisng never will be there.

Most people do not understand what they miss in their system. But for everything there is a reason why......

Most audiosystems which are sold worldwide are 2-dimensional and miss different aspects/properties of sound. This is the main reason why people experience and miss the emotion they are looking for.

I spend a lot of time in reading about how our brian works regarding the emotion by music. I made me understand so much better why different asepcts/properties of sound are so important during listening to music.

How do we work?

New clients send the list of their system to us. So we cab see what we can use and what has to go. We create sound by Tru-Fi. This means that we only use products which own all the different aspects/properties of sound.

When you connect a product what is incomplete it will limit each single system on the endresult. We make systems of new clients complete regarding the aspects/properties their systems do not own.

We often send new clients to clients of us who already own a Tru-Fi system. The new clients alsways take their music with them. When new clients experience a Tru-Fi system they understand often even in a few minutes how big the differences are in emotion and intensity compared to their own trial and error created system.

Emotion is the key to succes in audio. That is why you need all the different asepcts/properties of sound to be connected to the emotion of the music.

I have done thousands of tests in audio in over 20 years of time. I never met a person so far who also works in audio for over 20 years of time with the same level in effort and time in research in audio.

Audio never has been my work. Music is not a hobby for me, it is an addiction. For me music is my connection to life and emotion. It is a part of who I am as a person. It is my second nature. 

Audio is done all over the world by trial and error. This is a 100% fact. And has nothing to do with a personal taste. When you do audio by trial an error, you connect loudspeakers, a source, an amp and cables togheter. And you will listen to the endresult.

And now comes the facts; Sound is founded by different properties. Which are the different aspects of sound. When you play a recording it owns information and all the different aspects/properties of sound.

So....you need a system what is able to reveal all the details and different asepcts of the recording. Again we are talking about a 100% fact.

When I ask to people who also work in audio: Music is emotion? All people agree. But.......when I ask them how the human emotion works and which parts influence our emotion. They have no idea.

Humans have a personal taste in music, again this is a 100% fact. But......sound and music owns different aspects/properties who individuel can influence the emotion of us during listening to music.

That is why each single audio system what can reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound will be prefered and chosen by each single human being over any incomplete (missing different aspects/properties of sound) audio system created by trial and errror. And yes this can be proven bij sound and shootout.

Now we go back to trail and error? What is the biggest limitation on facts when you create an audio system by trial and error?

This is very easy to explain. When you hear to your system at home, you will listen to all the properties/aspects of each part (amp, source, loudspeaker, cable etc) together and all the different parts who negatively influence the sound and stage.

The acoustic, smog, highfrequent noise annd magnetims all have a big influence on both sound and stage.

You also need to know which 3 parts influence the human emotion. All these different parts proof how complex sound is. You only can understand and guide audio when you understand all these different parts.

Now we go back to trial and error. The limitation of trial and error is that you cannot extract the DNA of each individual part in your system. This is needed to be able to understand why the sound and stage (only 2 aspects/properties of sound) is what we hear.

In 2017 I had aan appointment with a person who also started to work in audio in 1998 like I did. He owns a audioshop these days. I just received a new loudspeakercable and wanted to test it.

So I asked him: this system is here for some time I guess? 

He said: Yes

I asked him: the loudspeakercable which is connected to the system has been there for some time?

He said: yes.

I asked him; when you put that cable out can you tell me which aspects/properties of sound you will take out?

He said: I have no idea.

I asked him; when you replace it whit the new cable, which proerties of sound you will put back?

He said: I have no idea.

So I asked him; when you listen to your own system or the system of a client you have no idea why the stage and sound (only 2 different properties of sound) is what we hear?

He said: I have no idea?

So I said: when you change a part for another part you have no idea what you do and change?

He said: I don't know.

This proofs again on facts that trial and error is pure audiogambling. Based on the fact that there is no real foundation on which you make all your choices.

I had this conversation with many many people who also work in audio for a long time. They all gave the same answers.

I learned to be able to think and work by the properties of sound. In 1998 when I started to work in audio I had the mindset (based on awareness) to learn and understand why amps and loudspeakers all sound so different. 

Einstein: “Only one who devotes himself to a cause with his whole strength and soul can be a true master. For this reason mastery demands all of a person”

It took me thousands of hours to be able to extract the full DNA of each individuel part in an audio system. Based on the awareness I had in 1998. I knew then that this is needed to understand and guide audio.

The acoustics has the biggest influence on sound and stage. That is why I spent the most time in research on this part in the past 8 years.

Also smog, magnetism and highfrequent noise have a huge negative influence on both sound and stage. I did research and tests on all these different apects. We created modifications and use different tools to minimize the influence of these aspects.

It gives us access to a much higher level/end result of each individual part in any audio system. It also proofs how complex sound is to be able to understand what it does. Since 1998 I gained a lot of insight and knowledge thanks to different kind of specialists in different aspects. An extreme perfectionist loves to cooperate and share knowledge and insight with the best people available in their area. I am aware that this gives me the highest level in effectiveness and result possible. Together you are so much stronger than on your own.

People in audio sell product and brands. We create sound. This is a different level and creates a quality what comes so much closer to how music sounds in real.

We only use and create systems which are able to reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. The biggest problem in audio is that over 99% of all audioproducts are incomplete in aspects/properties of sound. And what is misisng never can be revealed. 

You need all the aspects/properties of sound to experience and feel all the emotion the music posseses. Each single human being experience an incomplete audio system as less involving and less emotional compared to a system what can reveal all the aspects/properties of sound.

And again this can be proven by sound. The sound you hear will always tell the truth. Music is one of the most exciting parts in life to experience. We want each single client of us to feel all the emotion on their beloved music.

That is why we work by Tru-Fi.

Tru-Fi is music playback, such as music actually sounds. Tru-Fi revolves around the emotion that triggers music, because the music is true to nature. Pure natural music reproduction. Everyone wishes to experience music as real as possible. As if you were present at a live performance. This will bring you fully into the music and you become one with the music.

With this you will experience up to the emotion that the music can give you. And brings you into an atmosphere with your own music, in which you feel free with all your emotions. Because the music is completely separate and tangible in space. Never before did you feel so connected with your own music. And the music was so close to yourself. And each voice and instrument stands free and physically in your space. That's what True Fidelity is all about.

@bo1972 "We work for our clients. And we put a lot of effort and energy to give them the best result possible. This is the only way people will stay happy with their system each day they want to use it."

That statement is not only unsupportable it is untrue. I'm happy with my current system. And there are a lot of very experienced audiophiles on this site who have stated they are happy with theirs. And I don't think any of them would agree that there is only one path (yours) to that sort of contentment. Nor do I think many of them believe that such happiness is related to one brand or one consultant. Such claims smack of the theatrical.

@bo1972

Based on your comments above, so to you Lumin seemed to be the absolute best (best of the best) or best in its price range? Cause there are other excellent options out there that offer highly musical sound with excellent musicality, musical drive, rhythmic drive, textures, textures in layerings as you have repeatedly said.
Naim Audio, Linn (especially the latest generation of Linn Klimax DS with Katalyst DAC architecture), DCS, Esoteric, Vitus Audio, MSB Technology, MBL, Tidal, Chord, CH Precision all make excellent digital front end source components that offer highly musical sound that can convey the musical emotions of the artists or musical compositions.

However, when it comes to movies, physical bluray discs or physical 4k UHD discs when played back through good quality 4k UHD bluray disc player such as the Oppo UDP-205 will always have superior audio & video qualities compared to streaming movies from Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, Vudu, etc.

You need to learn to look further............why you should sell products which are not the best in each single price tag?

If I buy something I want the best quality for the money I spend. This is what we give all our clienst. I can garantee you that most people love a honest advice.

I always ask new clients? What do you prefer? Do you want the truth or you want us to tell you what you would like to hear?

We believe in the truth. When people read overhere that they did not choose the best option. It is often that people react negative. They would have liked that their choice was the best or at least a good one.

And again you need to learn to look further. When you really want the best, we always and only create the best possible.

We have many clients all over the world who are happy every single day with their system. Because we are extreme perfectionists and want the best for each individual client. When we would not give a honest or best advice you will loose your trust.

We are very loyal and dedicated to all our clients. They understand that with all our knowledge and insight we brought them to a much higher level than they ever have been before.

It is our duty and task to create systems which are used each single day. What will connect them to their music. We create sound and this makes us able to bring people a lot more close to the emotion of music. You only can create a high level in realism and emotion when you do a lot of research in audio all the time.

We work for our clients. And we put a lot of effort and energy to give them the best result possible. This is the only way people will stay happy with their system each day they want to use it.

@bo1972 :" 2nd best and less is only made for the born losers in this world. We take care of all our clients."

Nice. Doubt I'd be one of your clients.

You seem to be firmly in the wire directionality camp based on your comments regarding Audioquest Hurricane power cord and Audioquest USB cables, what with “much more details and layers,” as you say. Care to elaborate on wire directionality?

I sold many many Lumin’s in over 3 years of time. I sold the most Lumin L1 drives compared to any other shop who also sells Lumin.

Audio is all about shootout. And each single person wants that sound what is superior to any other quality.

I have many clients who first used different nas drives. But.....when we did compare the modified Lumin L1 with their nas. And even the most expensive ones. It was no match.

This is why I sold so many Lumin L1’s. You would be a born MF. fool to use any nas. The same counts for streaming by Tidal and Qobuz. When we compare the same music streamed by Tidal and Qobuz to the modified Lumin L1 and modified SBooster. The streamed music is just one big F. joke!

In my world and those of my clients streaming is just for little children. Clients who streamed a lot, now stream a lot less after they modified their Lumin L1. The difference in level in so huge, that streaming is not that impressive anymore. When you hear music played by the modified Lumin L1 (and modified SBooster) what it does to your emotion is so addictive. The joy and smiles it creates on your face is priceless.

We create sound and are always looking for the best quality possible. 2nd best and less is only made for the born losers in this world. We take care of all our clients. And want each single person to get the best quality for their money!

I have done thousands of tests in audio in over 20 years of time now. This is for me just as addictive as music is for me. We also did a lot of reasearch in ethernet cables.

We put the same music from the same computer with different ethernet cables. And we were suprised about the outcome. Most people believe and think it will never make a difference. Based on assumptions.

But.......audio is not about what you think or even what people say. Audio will always be all about facts and what you can hear and perceive. The sound and what you hear will always  tell the truth.

I had the best results with the Audioquest Diamond USB connected to the Lumin L1. It was impressive how much more details and layers you could hear compared to other cables and cheaper Audioquest USB cables.

We also compared ripped music with different programms and also with better drives. And yes the quality differs a lot. When we started to compare music you can buy even here the quality differs a lot. Even when we are talking about the same album at the same bitrate and quality.

Music I buy from Qobuz is better in sound quality than from other websites. I also found out that when I compare the best results in ripping vs the same music you can buy from Qobuz. The music I bought from Qobuz was better than the ripped music from cd’s.

That is why I bought many albums I love again from Qobuz. The thing I want to mention is that I love Pro Studio Maters a lot. Because they have often albums in Hi-Res which no other website has.

When you only want the best possible, use only music you can buy and use a modified drive with a modified powersupply. It outperforms the best streaming quality available at this  moment by planets in distance.

It is a totally different league on it’s own. And mannn it is so addictive. The level in realism and emotion is just one big blessing. I never could dream that this level in music playback would even be possible.

I listen to new music for about 3-4 hours each single week. I have to admit that the quality is still often limited and poor. It takes a lot of time to find the best music and also in a good quality. That is why I spend so much time in listening to new music. This is what I love most in life.

When you can play music at the level I own now with a modified Lumin L1 drive (with a modified SBooster) to a Lumin X1 with a modified powersupply.It makes music even more addictive than it ever was before.