Any more thoguhts on the Pledge wipes mentioned above? I have tried them...and they seem to work well, but I too wonder if anything is left behind. In the evening, if I shine a flashlight at about a 45 degree angle on a record that has been RCMd after steaming, there's little visible dust or lint. With just the microfiber cloth and no RCM, there's a ton of dust and lint. One pass under the pledge removes everything visible - literally one turn of the record. |
Vanmeter : I haven't yet purchased Spray & Wash or the Pledge Wipes, I will buy both soon. It is my guess w/o actual experience these cleaners should be used extreme cases. That is an opinion reasoned by use of other detergent-types cleaners but not the ones you suggest. I would try them & then reclean each LP with the prospect of removing all traces of household powerhouse-type detergents w/record cleaning fluid, several steams & the use a RCM to suck off whatevers left. I am concerned that the detergent residues could loosen the diamond tip by disolving the cement .Its known that some detergents can do that , I do not know exactly which ones. Should all residue be steamed off,I reason, no harm to the diamond's glue. That's my view , subject to revision. |
Good forum and good info.I use the walgeens steamer and it works well. But my cleaning process is a hybrid. I use the steamer in cojunction with the GEM dandy eaner and high pressure water hose. I steam, spray on the cleaner, apply the hose and finish with a steam. Then I wipe with microfiber and let dry. Works great for me. The hydraulic pressure removes any remaing crud left in the grooves and the final steam removes water residue |
Sabocat, this sounds pretty wet and messy. I am going to retry steam cleaning soon using the VPI 16.5 with the Walker vacuum tube. |
Crem (and others) one question - how long do you let the record dry before playing? Mine look dry right after wiping with a microfiber cloth, but I wonder if there's an ideal amount of time - 10 minutes? 5 minutes? An hour? Not at all? - that needs to pass before there's no chance of essentially wet playing deep in the groove. Or is the cloth getting every bit of moisture out? Just something I've been wondering about...your thoughts? |
Crem - do you use an attachment with the MC1235? I just got one and want to make sure I'm getting the most out of it... and what strength are you using the steam pressure setting (the one on the handle?) Mine is maxxed out. I find that the first splurt of steam is very drippy so I usually spray that into a towel and then proceed with the trigger held down.
I recently steamed an LP that I had previously cleaned via my homebrew alcohol solution and it actually sounded worse.
It had more pops and crackles post-steaming than it had before, which was totally strange. I think it could be the new Mofi brush I was using, that thing was leaving a lot of threads/strands/residue on the microfiber cloth while I was drying -- could be that some of that thread junk got into the grooves... probably not the steamer's fault.
Right now I don't have an RCM or lazy susan to spin the LP on so I'm just laying it flat on a microfiber cloth and steaming around the LP for about 10 seconds with the bent nozzle held about 3 inches above the LP surface, moving at a steady pace. Any better way to do it with the MC1235? I've read through ALL of the old threads, so I guess I'm seeing if there's an update to your technique over time with this new steamer. |
Bogglor,
I use the MC 1235 exactly as pictured on the box w/the straight nozzel. I have no dripping ... yet. If I were you, I would contact Top Innovations to request a replacement for your apparent defective unit.
How I steam is as follows:
I pre-steam a side to loosen up any grunge(my term for record dirt) , I lightly scrub with very, very fine soft brush or a VPI record cleaning brush. I do use record cleaning fluids from Home Brew to Disc Doctor & others with a gentle scrubing. I then use a VPI 16.5 to suck off the whatevers on the record, I then re-steam to remove any residue re-use the VPI 16.5 or in the alternative, air drying using a very, very soft cotton micro-type cloth to wipe while resting the LP from a 1/2 hour to a day.
I rarely ever re-steam a LP provided ,I replace the inner sleve & place the Lp in a poly bag.
Whenever I use the MC 1235 ,I squeese the trigger once knowing a burst of steam with follow several seconds later. I then re-squeese the trigger & release it release again perhaps releaseing a 2nd or a third burst of steam. Note, that's what differs the MC 1235 from the traditional water boilers in which the trigger releases a head of premade steam within the water boilers at a force preset by the manufacturer. With the MC 1235, I perfer to use the low setting on mint LPs & the higher setting everything elese. I perfer the additional control factor.
In terms of home brew, I use the formulas posted on the Net using 92 to 100 percent ISO & battery water.
You do not have a lazy susan : May I suggest using a 100 percent cotton wash cloth than micro-cloths , so many act as static magnets... That could be a part of the problem.
A lot of steamers feel strongly they do not require a RCM & swear that steaming alone is superior to any RCM.
Respectfully, its a difficult call because one can be assured all debris(AKA Gunk) in the grove has been removed w/o a vaccum machine. Still, other steamers use deep water rinsing with either very clean water or Nerl water with hand drying stating " That's the way to go". As for me , I'm a mixer I combo steaming with a RCM. That's my style but others say they have great results with steam and just steam, something you have not.
Bogglor , Demand a replacement or your money refunded.
Steamers, do you have any further suggestions ? |
After trying Crem's steam cleaning methods, I was one who decided Cleaning Solutions were no longer necessary.......just a pure water rinse and vacuum after the steam. However I still use a RCM for all the conveniences of rotation and counter-rotation but most importantly, for the vacuuming. I would never consider just simply 'wiping' the record and air drying after the water rinse. At this microscopic level, there will be molecules of dirt and/or contamination lying at the bottom of the water trapped in the grooves. To let it dry there is I feel, counter-productive. |
Vanmeter, I have found that many LPs can be played shortly after cleaning. For reasons yet un-explained some LPs sound better with a rest. I have no scientific explanation but thats how it is ... Sometimes. |
That makes all the sense in the world to me, except other than the occasional white gunk on my stylus, which I suspect it certain mold release compounds, the sound is slightly - just slightly more open without using the RCM, and there's no sense of restriction in sound from not using the vacuum. Maybe I should be looking at what could be wrong with my RCM instead of the other way around! |
Hmm, there may be some error in my technique then, as I'm just holding the trigger down the entire time while steaming as opposed to a press / wait / press again cycle. I will remove the attachment and try it with your methodology and see if that improves any. It's important to note that it doesn't drip ALL the time, just on that first blast of steam it's a little more water vapor oriented than steam oriented, but it changes over to all steam quickly. If it persists or I find it defective after trying it your way, I will return the item to TI.
Thanks for your reply and all of your innovations regarding steaming. I am hoping that I can get it down to the science that you have! |
Bogglor piece of cake. very easy to do. BTW i hold the trigger down the entire time i'm steaming with the attachment on the steamer its a Perfection steamer. Its normal for the blast of water along with dripping on most occasions. And thats hundreds of lps i've steam cleaned.
I've never had a problem always get super quite, sounding vinyl. The only problem is when a lp is so bad to begin with that the process does not get the results needed to enjoy the record. And all thats lost is your time and a few cents for materials. You will get the hang of it, then it will be second nature to you. IMO nothing beats the sound of a steamed cleaned lp period. |
Bogglor: Stltrains is describing the technique adapted for a "Perfection Handheld Steam Cleaner" available @ Walgreens but apparently according to posts the name has been changed to "Lifestyles" rather than "Perfection". It an excellent product alined with traditional water boiling units; the MC 1235 does not create steam in the same way. Therefore, it is possible that the spitting that you experienced was the result of holding down the water trigger. The MC 1235 manual cautions that holding down the injector trigger for more than 10 seconds creates spitting. The perfection works differently. The head of steam from the Perfection is released with the hand trigger at a constant rate until it is gone.
The MC 1235 creates steam on demand in 2-3 second bursts with each squeese of the hand trigger that injects a small shot of water into a micro-steamer that inturn creates steam moments following a squeese of the trigger. |
Crem glad i was able to get a backup Perfection unit. From what you describe above i would think the continuous spray would be on the easy side. Of course not using the newer 1235 i would not know would i.
And on it goes the evolution of steam cleaning vinyl and i could not be any happier with your discovery of steaming vinyl thanks again Crem. |
remember that a thorough RCM vacuuming can leave the record with a strong static charge that needs to be dissipated with a Zerostat, Ionoclast, Talisman or some such device. If the record is still damp this will not be the case. |
Stltrains: Thanks for your support. Kind comments like yours really give me a boost.
On reflection, I was frankly surprized to discover the difficulity some of us were having with the MC 1235. I believe a Steam user with years of experience the transition appears more transparent from water boilers to instant steam makers. On reflection I think a blanket recommendation of the MC 1235 is over-reaching. The Perfection Steamer is a reliable unit very well suited to the over-all needs of a novice to a more seasoned record steam cleaner. Yes, the MC 1235 has innovations but certantly seems more demanding, more "complicated" than the Perfection. Both provide excellent results. The MC 1235 will provide excellent service but the learning curve is longer to the Perfection (now The Lifestyle Steamer).
As I previously posted ; a canster steamer I was operating at home "exploded" in my kitchen. No one was hurt and all the failsafe measures worked perfectly. The $100 canster steamer was expensive to repair ,$230 for the all brass boiler plus installation. That insident started me on a quest for newer technology : A fellow poster alerted me to the MC 1235.
What works for me may not always work as well for someone elese. But, the basics remain the same , a reliable water source & technique supported with a record cleaning fluid an RCM are proven sucess. The application of an anti-static device does improve upon the end-result. I have yet to use the Walker devise;however, I do use a home brew machine that drys & removes static in moments. I have a zapper and a studio tape demagger that removes all static in a second,quite effective . |
Furtech De Stat is a real winner for static elimination. Just wish they would have included a wall wort to use along with batteries.
Crem you are quite welcome.
Mike |
Stltrains, I think you would find the Walker Talisman better. I did. |
Tbg i use both and with fine results. I find the De Stat is very useful right after my steam cleaning process. I seem to develop a lot of static and the De Stat removes all of it with no problem.
I use Talisman before each playback of a lp. And do believe it improves the sound of vinyl. Lord knows what will come up next to rise our fancy.
Enjoy the music while you can. |
I think I finally ruined a record using my steamer with a VPI 16.5. I was experimenting by moving the nozzle of the steamer quite close to the LP. There is now a low-level thump on one radius line all across the LP from lead-in to run-out. I suspect that the damage occurred when the 16.5 clamped down the vacuum wand on soft hot vinyl. Be careful not to get too close with steam! |
Dgarretson: What a misfortune. In years of steaming, nothing like that has happened to me (yet). One rule: I never steam closer than 3/4"ish and constantly move the steam unit all over the LP side for moments at a time. May your fortune change. The whole purpose of steaming is to improve the plight of average-up LP owners. In the future please be awaire of the distance & concentration of steam. Most nozzels are brass , a touch there goes the LP. Better luck in the days ahead. |
