raymonda - Ok, now I see where our applications differ. Most of my LPs are record show and garage sale finds, usually a buck to 3 bucks apiece. So, as you can imagine, they are often in pretty bad shape. With decent new or mint LPs, your method makes a lot of sense (if you don't despise computers like I do). But for me, the amount of work required to clean up a noisy LP would take a really long time.
I know there is no free lunch, but, at least in the demo I heard, the click removal of the Sugarcube seemed completely transparent. This is not a standard filter, but an algorythm-based program. It is also adjustable, on the fly, and you can listen to only the signal being filtered out. If there is no music signal in this disgarded portion of the signal, I think it is safe to say that no music is being lost. We'll see. Of course I will post my impressions of the SC-2 here when (or if) I get mine. |
Yes, you have to look at the file, listen and determine where the click or pop is, highlight the area and process it. A typical album, which has maybe 2-6 issues may take 2 minutes at best. Generally it can be done in under a minute.
If an album has many issues it is generally not worth, IME, to record it. I would wait until I was able to buy a cleaner copy. I can process the whole album at once but I would rather stay clear of having to process sections that don't require it. I have found that, regardless of claims, there is no free lunch. I also have a Denoiser plug in that I use and which can be fairly effective with tape hiss. But that too has to be lightly used. It will leave finger prints. As with all these things it just a matter of how many finger prints one can tolerate.
I transfer my recordings via 24/96. It affords me great sound on the go plus it leaves me an accurate representation of cartridges and phono amps for future references. |
Thanks, raymonda. So, if I understand it correctly, in order to declick a recording, you have to locate the click on a graphic visual representation of the audio file, and manually remove the click. Is that correct? If so, wouldn't the process be rather time-consuming, depending on how many clicks you want to remove? |
I use declicker software in Wavelab and as a plug in with Cubase. I found they do work but can effect the music if applied universally and is best used only on the wav. segment where the click or pop happens.
I've also found there is never a free lunch but sometimes you have to do what is necessary. I doubt that anyone could tell where I declicker without listening really hard and thus, missing the music.
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A new update from Sweetvinyl: Some of the SC-1 beta units have shipped. About 60 of the SC-2 units are expected to ship in September. This means I will probably receive mine within the month (I am the 12th contributor for the SC-2 to the Indiegogo campaign). However, the SC-2 will initially ship with SC-1 software. That means it will not have the digitizing functionality or the track division functionality. Bummer. Also, the smart phone control app is not ready yet. So, it will function as a declicker, using the front panel controls, but that’s about it. I will probably insert it in the signal chain prior to my CD recorder, so I can continue to make CD-Rs of my vinyl, but now without the clicks and pops.
All the functionality being left out of the SC-2 can be added via firmware updates over the web, so I am hopeful that these functions will be added soon. |
lewm - I understand your concern, but as I think I made clear above, my only connection with Sweetvinyl is that I committed to be a beta tester for the SC-2 during Sweetvinyl’s Indiegogo campaign. As a contributor, I receive regular email updates from Sweetvinyl which I have shared here. Also, I saw the product demonstrated and spoke with two of the principles of Sweetvinyl at the November, 2016 Chester Group audio show in NYC. Everything about the product I have posted here is based on what I have learned from my communications with the folks at Sweetvinyl. Other than being a paying customer and beta-tester, I have no financial interest in or control over Sweetvinyl. Just as I appreciate it when users of new products post their impressions here on Audiogon, I am trying to share my experience and excitement about this product with the audio community.
Perhaps what raises suspicion is my extreme enthusiasm for the Sugarcube. You got me there! After 10 years of using a pro-sumer CD recorder to digitize my LPs, I am only about half way done, and the process is difficult. I currently have to insert track divisions on the fly using the recorder’s remote. If I miss, I can either start over again or live with it. Then there is the process of manually typing in much of the metadata after ripping the CD-R onto my server. And, then there are the clicks and pops that still annoy even after a good vacuum cleaning. The Sugarcube promisses to solve all three of these issues with a turnkey dedicated box that does not require the use of a computer and a handful of applications. If it works, it will speed up the process, produce cleaner, higher-res digital files of my LPs, and make organizing them on a server easier. So, am I excited? Heck yes! Sorry if I come across as a shill, but I am really enthusiastic about this product, which, I feel, is a new product category. I have taken a lot of flak from others who are committed to using a bunch of computer programs to accomplish what the Sugarcube will do, but none of these programs do what the Sugarcube can do without a lot of digital editing of the recorded files. The Sugarcube automates the click & pop removable (and it’s adjustable), automatically inserts track divisions, and automatically pulls down meta data from the web.
BTW, most of this info is on the Sweetvinyl.com web site and the Indiegogo.com web site. At Indiegogo, just search for Sugarcube, and read through the page and the updates.
As for me seeming to be alone in posting, that is likely because there are only 100 SC-2 beta units being produced, and perhaps the other 99 beta testers are not active on Audiogon. Who knows? It does seem that some of the Indiegogo campaign purchasers are located outside the U.S., too.
Hey, it’s an Indiegogo thing, so I might end up with nothing, or with a unit that doesn’t deliver as promissed. That’s the risk I took after seeing/hearing the demo. It is already 4 months overdue, but as I said to Dan Eakins of Sweetvinyl, I’d rather have it right, than right now. So, even though I may end up with a paperweight, or a product that does not deliver what was promissed (and with very little recourse, according to Indiegogo policy), I remain fairly optimistic. |
Bondmanp, Reading the posts in this thread, which mostly come from you, I have to wonder whether you are promoting this product or this company. Not that there's anything wrong with that, in my opinion, but you might at least admit to it. You have an intimate knowledge of the product without, supposedly, ever having owned one.
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vpi - Nope - all the signal paths you can select are full range. You choose from (1) the unfiltered signal, with all the pops and clicks, (2) the filtered signal, which filters out the pops and clicks - more or less filtering as you adjust the rotary filter knob - or (3) just what the Sugarcube is filtering out. IOW, in this last mode, you can hear only the signal that is being removed by the filter. It is full range, so, if you hear any music while listening to just the signal that is being filtered out, you know that you are actually removing some of the music along with the pops and clicks. The trick is to then reduce the level of filtering, on the fly, until you cannot hear any music when listening to only what the filter is removing. That way, you get the maximum amount of pop & click filtering possible without losing any of the music signal. I hope this explains it. This is one case in which a demo is worth 1000 words. |
Are you all suggesting that there is no music in the same frequency range as the ticks, clicks and pops that this device is removing?
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Sounds like you are all set up for your Sugarcube, thaluza.
One of the cool features on it allows you to listen to the whole, unfiltered signal, the de-clicked signal, or just the clicks being filtered. This is important, because, using the de-clicker adjustment knob, you can easily select a level of click-removal that does not also remove some of the music signal. If you hear any music in the click-only setting, you are overdoing it on the filter. Simply dial it back until the music is gone, and you have the optimal amount of filtering. Brilliant! |
bondmanp - No I have not. I only have read some posts and Fremer's initial impression. I'm looking for an easy way to digitize my fairly large vinyl collection. The SC-2 is very appealing to me. I just got a Coincident Statement Phono Stage, which has an extra output and a line input, which is perfect for the SC-2. I will be able to compare the click and pop removal feature with the flick of a switch. It's going to be fun!
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thaluza - Have you ever heard a Sugarcube demo? I have. Extremely impressive. The click & pop removal sounded totally transparent to me. Plus, Sweetvinyl claims they have further improved the process in the last few months. Hopefully, our patience will be well rewarded. |
I put a deposit down for an SC-2, but I am not in the beta tester group. Sounds like the SC-1 is very close to rolling out. I'm hoping to read the impressions of SC-1 owners about the real-time click and pop removal feature.
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Well, there have been some setbacks at Sweetvinyl, so the Sugarcube units are still being built and tested. It looks like my SC-2 will ship without a lot of the functionality that was promised. However, all the functionality promised will be available as downloadable software updates, so I don't see the downside to taking delivery before all the features are ready and tested. I will try to post any further news about this product here. Stay tuned! |
Yes, enginedr1960, as long as you use an Apple computer (I do not). Are the track tagging and click &pop removal automated, or manual? |
Channel D pure vinyl has just added track tagging and click and pop removal to there software may be another option to streamline this process |
Just an update - The SweetVinyl folks have made some hardware revisions (including the ability to adjust recording level and balance via the app - yes!), so the release has been delayed. I would rather they get it right than I get it right now, so patience is the word. Once all hardware is ready they will begin production. Software updates can be done in the field via the web. |
Very interested in your findings once you get the unit. |
The Indiegogo campaign was successful, and my beta SC-2 unit is expected to ship in March. I will report my experience with this unit here. |
The Indiegogo Campaign for the SweetVinyl SugarCube is now live!!! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sweetvinyl-sugarcube#/ I already committed to support this amazing device. If you listen to or digitize vinyl, you NEED to look at what the SugarCube can do! I have no financial interest or any other connection to SweetVinyl other than my support of the Indiegogo Campaign. |
Because right now, when I digitize my vinyl (for use in the car and my server), I have to live with the ticks and pops, and, since I use a pro-sumer CD recorder, inserting the track divisions on the fly is a real challenge. Not to mention the fact that I often have to edit the metadata because dBPoweramp couldn't find it. |
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