I just spoke with one of thd designers at Synergistic. He said these black fuses
Just yo get 85%vit takes about 100 hours ,dacs evrn more ,thr more current draw
The faster the runin. Up to 300 hours to fully runjn ,mainly because the Graphene
Is 1,000s of times more densemble yhen Copper or Silver. These are facts
As usual trickle down technology Nasa has been using for years .
Originally developed in its basic stste in the U.K late 1940s as technology allows
3d printing ,and world's most lightest But super strong substance Super computers are now using its ultra speed capabilities. I started with the dac
then whole system well worth the money spent. |
Very happy to read that you achieved success, fleschler.
Not at all surprised that you had to make some changes in your room acoustics. I put the Blacks in my REL subs about a week ago and had to cut the output levels back at a good bit. Some re-positioning work yet to be done.
"Previous to the fuses, I could not enjoy low listening levels, the sound was just not rich and dynamic."
I think you hit on the most unique and amazing effect of the Black fuses with that statement. Not sure that this has been brought to light before on this thread. Usually only major component changes generate that response IME.
Congrats and enjoy!
Dave
|
Robert came over to hear what 2 fuses & a duplex has done to my system. He thought it never sounded so rich and detailed; however, he used his critical ear and heard a slight closed in sound and lower mid suck out. He told me that the.side wall center hallographs had to be moved further apart as they were set up for the old fuse sound (like electronic distortion-the new fuses sound distortionless with a black backround).
After he left, I spent an hour testing various depths and 9" back to side walls sounded best with a zero array setting. It had a soustaging and immediacy problem though. So I moved the rear hallographs inward first 2 notches then 1 notch. Voila! Great success. The tremendous fuse&duplex sound was surrounding me with a continuous soundstage in front of me from beyond my speakers, I have a dynamic and tonally rich, detailed sound. I found I could enjoy music at low listening levels and as loud as I can tolerate.
Previous to the fuses, I could not enjoy low listening levels, the sound was just not rich and dynamic. I am going to buy fuses for my tv system and CD players. The fuses are transformative. I've spent most of the weekend listening (my wife had a cold so I wasn't interrupting any engagements). When I opened the door, she heard the music flow into the adjacent bedroom and commented on how warm and lifelike the music sounded (the Klezmorim was playing a dynamic and colorful ensemble closely miked). That's the first time she had no negative comment in decades. The cost for this upgrade is nominal (as long as the fuses don't blow).
Thank you Frank and David as well for your support. |
Hi Nyame,
The comparison to the my turntable's attributes was with the Yamamoto DAC which was so Intrinsically organic. The addition of a 300b SET amplifier is the "single" most significant and impactful change to my system. I will say that the DAC and SET are cut from the same natural musical fabric. Probably not surprising since Yamamoto earned their reputation building low power SET amplifiers for 15 years prior to introducing the DAC. Both DAC and my SET are built on simple circuits, avoid negative feedback (NFB) and have strong power supplies.
Charles |
Charles,
Urban Meyer is a great coach, no doubt. He just didn't have the horses this year, after losing so much talent to the NFL draft last year. 3 of the top 10 picks, and 5 picks in the 1st round were OSU players. You just don't replace players like Ezekiel Elliot and Joey Bosa so easily.
Rose Bowl saved an otherwise boring bowl season. Unfortunately, my team, PSU, lost.
Cheers,
John |
Charles 1 dad
I really do not know what a SET amplifier is and was never really sufficiently interested in finding out. Until now. Your description of what it did for you "conveyed the emotion and essence of music as convincingly as my TT" has got my attention. I will do some research to learn more about this fascinating technology.
Thanks
|
My Dad was a Clemson grad, and although I spent a year at Bama myself, I was raised to be a Clemson fan before I was old enough to know what football was. Go Tigers! Beat the best! |
I was reading onThe Fuses purpose ,and upgrade .
first off when a piece of electronics is designed there is built in at very minimum
on Any Quality piece of at least 20% overhead in electrical draw. To cover brown outs ,power surges. Your Fuse say 3 Amp I a standard steel fuse can vary over 15% before it pops. This is why Boutique Hiend fuses sometimes pop .
reason being they are Very accurate typically within 1%.this is why rule of thumb
you get next size up 3.25,3.5 amp and make sure your U get correct Size
Fast blow, or T- timed = slowblow .Big difference between the two it says on
the fuse cap ,get a magnifier if need be . Very expensive fuse to blow. |
nyname ...
"For Duke" is a wonderful record. I had two copies that I bought new, kept them for years, then about three years ago gave one to a friend. Someone here should take you up on the offer.
Al ... if you don't have it, your ART-9 will put the Duke Ellington orchestra in your room.
|
Nyame,
I understand your assumption. Many SET amplifier aficionados are also analog source users as well. I was in fact a hard core turntable user/advocate for many years. I discovered a relatively obscure Japanese DAC (Yamamoto YDA-1) that conveyed the emotion and essence of music as convincingly as my TT did playing records. Its been about 6 years and I’ve not looked back.
I still enjoy good vinyl listening very much and a friend has an excellent Basis table and their top level tonearm and Miyajima cartridge. Despite this ongoing exposure I’m thoroughly happy and musically content with my Redbook source. The most impactful event in my music system development was acquiring a SET amplifier.
Charles |
|
Charles 1 dad
I always assumed you were into vinyl. I was of the belief you were still using your turntable. I know you use a low powered amp and I subconsciously concluded you were most likely still spinning vinyl.
A very long time ago while studying in London I purchased a used 5 watt mono tube amp with a single EL34 tube. I built a large speaker enclosure and mounted a 8" full range concentric Wharfedale loudspeaker speaker in it. Unbelievable sound levels !!!.
I decided to upgrade to stereo so I built a Heathkit 9 watts per channel tube amp. I also build a pair of very efficient loudspeakers. I did not have skills (nor the space) to make folded horns horns so I built something very close to a horn, but using the principle of pipes. Not as good as a folding horn but a very similar method of moving air. Drivers were ELACS. I was in audio heaven.
|
Hello nyame,
Thank you for such a kind and thoughtful offer, I sincerely appreciate that. These days I'm exclusively Redbook CD. I must say that over the years I've have such very kind offers/loans/favors from fellow audiogon friends. For example Frank has taken the time/effort to copy some of his favorite music and send them to me, really good stuff. Charles |
Bill berry & his Ellington Allstars - "FOR Duke " Vinyl Album
The storage area continues to give up its secrets. I gave ALL my LPs to a music lover in New York many, many years ago. So you can imagine my surprise ( and delight ") to find about 8 LPs Including " FOR DUKE ".
I would like you to have it if you do do not own a copy. If you do have a copy I would offer it to Sir Charles 1 dad. This was my " GO TO ") disc for sound quality evaluation. I also regarded the performance as excellent.
This disc deserves a place in every fine collection if only because the engineer was Steve McCormach.
|
John, I'll give Urban Meyer the benefit of doubt, sometimes very talented teams/players just have a bad game. Clemson's overall team speed will be fun to watch against the mighty Bama. Lots of future NFL talent in this battle. Charles |
Having been married to a Bama fan for 35 years and becoming one myself by said association I am looking for a great game between Bama and Clemson, recalling last year's game, I believe Clemson outplayed them for 3 quarters and that Clemson just got Sabined in the last quarter. wine or lose we are looking for a great game.
|
I guess that Ohio State showed that they did not belong there. I wonder if that will have any weight in the future, next time that the selection committee considers a non-conference champion to place in the final 4.
Ohio State was impressive early, but was really leaking oil coming down the stretch. Losing to PSU, and barely escaping Michigan and Michigan State.
Clemson vs Bama should be a good match-up. It's a shame it's on too late for us East Coasters who have to get up early for work to watch. I'm sure I will see a replay eventually.
|
Clemson appears to have the athletic caliber to push Bama, we’ll soon find out. Their defensive front seven is no doubt impressive! The offense is definitely very explosive. You rarely see Ohio State get handled in that fashion, completely dominated by Clemson. Charles |
^^^ Thanks, Al & Charles.
On a side note ... who put Meth in the Clemson football team's Gatorade?
Next week, Clemson vs Alabama. It gonna be a war. |
Frank has good taste 😊
Charles |
Just want to reciprocate and extend good wishes to all for health and happiness, and good listening, in 2017.
Looking back at 2016, the only significant change I made to my system was purchase and installation of an Audio Technica AT-ART9 phono cartridge, which has been wonderful. I made the decision to do that in part because of the advocacy provided at this forum by Frank (OP), among several others. I continue to be grateful for that.
Best regards,
-- Al
|
|
Frank,
My Miles collection includes all eras with the exception of the fusion genre, I just don’t enjoy this style of jazz music. I have quite a few Chet Baker recordings, I simply enjoy both of these artists. Although lesser known, Art Farmer had beautiful tone and particularly on his flugelhorn, just gorgeous. His collaborations with Gerry Mulligan were excellent.
Charles |
Charles ... I stopped listening to Miles when he entered the "fusion" era. One of my favorite miles album is the original mono release on Columbia that I found in a used record store back in the early 70's. I think that's the era the author was alluding to. This album puts Miles' muted trumpet right there in front of you. If memory serves me right, I think I paid fifty cents for it. Man, those were the days for record collecting. Here's an original copy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILES-DAVIS-Round-About-Midnight-LP-COLUMBIA-CL-949-6-EYE-DG-MONO-John-Coltr... |
Advise on the Synergistic research Black fuses , recommendations .
due to standard fuses with a variance of over 15% many times the very accurate 1% or less Premium fuse will pop. Recommend to go up one size bigger
and still be very stable and runin time 48 hr to Start runin ,200 hours to full resolution . These coating are very stable but demand lots of use to stabilize. |
Frank,
I suspect that author may be stating opinion/speculation rather than fact. Miles had been well established nearly 10 years on the jazz scene prior to Chet’s arrival. I can fully accept the idea that Miles admired Chet’s tone, but chasing to mimic it for his entire career? Miles had his own sound and approach to the trumpet and was always innovative and searching for ways of musical and creative expression.
You could make the case that he had 4 different career eras based strictly on his changing styles of playing. Bebop,Hard Bop, Modal and fusion, and perhaps some further subcategories. I don’t question that he admired the trumpet tone of Chet, he openly admired the playing of trumpeters Clifford Brown and Fats Navarro.
Charles |
Misstl,
I see your point, I have many jazz recordings from the 1950s-1960s and the vast majority of them sound oh so good! As fletcher noted in his post above, good quality tube equipment, generally simple signal paths and talented sound engineers with high standards and good ears are responsible for the recording quality.
Misstl my tubed preamplifier and power amplifier came with "stock" fuses and tubes installed. How did they sound? Wonderful! However when I changed to better quality tubes and fuses there was unquestionably improved sound quality. The original sound was never substandard by any means with generic tubes/fuses. In addition to tubes and fuses, improving wire and capacitors can clearly improve the sound of equipment.
Essentially the baseline sound began as "very high caliber " and moved further upwards with the inclusion of superior parts. I believe that the sound engineers did their best with what was available to them during that era. If they were made aware of better quality items I suspect most would have taken advantage.
Happy New Year folks,
Charles |
missti ..
I read an interesting article recently about Chet Baker. The author made the assertion that Miles Davis spent his entire career chasing Chet Baker's tone ... and never quite captured it. After reading the article, I can hear the author's point when listening to Miles now. |
Happy New Year to all of you who have taken the time to contribute to this very enjoyable thread. Its been a real pleasure for me to meet so many dedicated audiophiles here on A'gon. Here's to a great and positive 2017. |
First, my wife is a very impartial and impatient person who I inflict my audio changes to. I did the same A/B test that an Optometrist does to a patient. No hinting as to which I preferred. She indicated she clearly preferred one direction over another and it was just as obvious to me. Same in both audio rooms systems.
Second, after 33 hours burn-in time, the fuses sounded mostly as good as they initially did. I listened every 10 hours until 70 hours when the sound was quite exhilarating. Record noise diminished 75% (alot) and the pleasure of hearing records with less than good vinyl or condition was tremendously improved. It’s more effective than adding the SimplyVinyl SugarCube pop and click remover but better since it removes even more vinyl noise. I intend to add that device next year to my tape loop for 78s and LPs with lots of pops and clicks (we are talking 1000s of records).
Third, CDs improved in similar ways but I have an idiosyncratic sounding EAR Acute player because I use the earliest stock Amperex 6922s which have huge tonality, dynamics, mids and bass with a rolled off high end (slightly covered sound with less ambience) when I listen at the increased global feedback setting on my amps (I have this feature in 2 db steps from 2 db to 8 db range). When I use the minimum feedback, I have a leaner, less tonally rich sound from CDs (perfect for my LPs & 78s) but great ambience and openess as well as slightly tighter bass. I think it’s time to change the fuse in the CD player (which is plugged into the Teslaplex SE not the black duplex). That may alter the sound beneficially. I’ve tried about a dozen other NOS 6922 brand tubes and they just don’t sound as compelling (i.e. gold pin Amperex have fantastic mids and highs but no bass, Siemens were dry and lifeless, etc with the stock JJs okay comparatively speaking).
As I’ve stated before and as several other contributors have said, they’ve tried many tweaks over the decades. Some work, some don’t. The degree that they affect the sound also varies. Almost all of our audio systems are different. One naysayer should get off this site as he does not contribute anything positive, only cynical negativism to our enjoyment of our avocation..
As to why such great recordings were made in the 50’s and 60’s, first they used simpler but effective power supply and design technology (and cleaner A/C lines back then-no digital hash). Second, they used state of the art tubes with metallurgy unavailable today with proprietary construction. Third, simpler miking, done correctly to capture the sound and not so much the ambience aka wrongly miked recordings by Yarlung today as an example. There are probably more reasons which I can’t think of currently.
I’m so excited about my "new" audio system, I’m going back to listen for another few hours.
|
Come on guys,
Stop thinking about the fuse for now and focus on the ones that you love and care. It's new year and happy new year to you all. |
>>
As for me, I'll take Chet Baker's trumpet in my face.
Can't resist commenting -- just think how much better Chet's recordings would have been if they would have had these fuses 50 or 60 years ago when the bulk of his best records were made. Amazing what they were able to accomplish with the plain-vanilla conductor material they were stuck with in those days. |
|
ptss: "The claims being made "sounds like out of phase" are nonsensical."
How would you know? Happy New Year!
Dave |
Charlatans and snake oil salesman must be maintaining this thread.
The claims being made "sounds like out of phase" are nonsensical. |
georgelofi: "And the world is flat."
I always suspected this to be your belief, but confirmation is always nice. Happy New Year!
Dave
|
I don't care for technical jargon Voodoo is far more believable isn't it. And the world is flat. Cheers George |
How sad to be so wretchedly unhappy and cynical, wolf. Happy New Year!
Dave |
I don't care for technical jargon ... I just like to listen to music through a highly resolving music system. When the fuses are installed in the "wrong" direction the system sounds out of phase. Turn the fuse around and the image locks in with a terrific three dimensional relief. I hear it clearly and my audiophile friends hear it also. For the life of me, I cannot understand the controversy. You can analyze this stuff to death if you want to. As for me, I'll take Chet Baker's trumpet in my face. |
Thank you Charles, its good to know there wasn't something simple and big picture I was missing.
And I wasn't checking to see if Geoff might have exaggerated his facts a little to make a point, I know he would never do that.
|
And still no explanation of WHY "magic" fuses work, other than fan-boy speculation about power supply bottlenecks or fake directionality theories. I assume that if Fusers were given these things for free (like I was) instead of committing hundreds of their Geek Bucks to them thus encouraging a passionate desire for them to work their magic ("I really really think I hear the cellos better…I do…I KNOW I do…now I KNOW I'm a Real Good Listener and will be welcomed as part of the beloved Fuser Faithful."), the perceived (or imagined, often maybe the same thing) results would be like what I found, that these fuses are over promoted consumer fraud. This also assumes the fuses didn't blow immediately (like mine did). Also, if something like a copy of Atmasphere's well reasoned unmasking of the fake science of fuse directionality accompanied the fuses to save the consumer's time and effort by eliminating the "Post 170 Hour Break-in Fuse Flip" ceremony, I bet many less Fusers would buy into that and simply clean the fuse holder. |
Hi Jetter,
No I haven’t tried that with my cables. I used the Ocellia Silver Reference cables that have directional arrows and I placed them that way. The fuse directionality is purely by ear in my system. Between mine and a friend’s system we’ve done this about 7 or 8 times now and without fail there’s a change in sound with switching directions of the SR and Audio Horizon fuses. So that sums up my experience.
Charles |
Hi Charles and anyone who cares to chime in,
This may be the wrong place for me to post this, but since this tread has also become partly a directionality discussion pardon me if I do, and its short.
I have not tried the fuses, admittedly because my system is not resolving enough to discern the differences. And if you could see my set up what a hassle to get into my components. First you move the component cabinet and to move that take down the new large screen tv, then all the interconnects are removed from the preamp, not done lightly.
My question is, other than with these fuses, have you heard the directionality with cables with the frequency that Geoff implies?
Thanks,
|
|
Jetter,
I agree with you regarding Al’s post, unfailingly logical and well presented. Here’s the problem, real life experiences that counter well reasoned skepticism. This thread is 61 pages and over 3,000 posts. The number of positive outcome posters overwhelm the negative outcome few.
If a very small number of people have poor results how does that suggest more merit/validity compared to the much larger group of positive experience posters? Expectation bias? Plausible for a few granted , but the entire group? Not very likely.
Keep in mind that there exists negative expectation bias as well. One can be so rigid and negative regarding an issue that they’re absolutely incapatible of admitting they could simply be wrong.
If the "better fuse" idea is nonsensical to you that’s understood and so be it. What does that have to do with what many of us have heard in our home systems? Nothing. There are two opposing groups of people engaged in a discussion. In terms of "listening credentials " surely they are established bilaterally.
Charles |
Exactly! 😀
Hah!
You mean the "In fact, I’d go so far as to say your arguments would probably sway almost anyone, especially a newbie, who has not already heard directionality for himself."
Bingo!
Then jetter wrote,
"You big bully! Even throwing in an unhappy Emoticon."
Huh? Looks happy to me. Don't worry, be happy.
Then jitter gets down to brass tacks,
"Really though, other than in this fuse thread, directionality has not been often discussed (relatively speaking) except regarding what direction the arrows on cables that have them should be pointed."
you haven’t been paying attention. It’s been discussed in many threads here. SEARCH is your friend.
then jitter fires his best shot,
"I wonder, again other than pertaining to this fuse thread, how many people have actually heard a directionality difference? One in 5, one in 10, one in 500, two in 100,000?"
actually your numbers are correct. It’s just that they represent the number of folks that HAVEN’T HEARD or CAN’T HEAR directionality. Let’s say for the sake of argument one in 200, OK? 😀
|
I'm considering contacting UL and asking them if a potentially dangerous product such as an unreliably rated fuse falls under their purview, although I may have to wait until Tuesday…I suggest SR fusers unplug their gear until I get this settled…or maybe install some Littlefuse products for the time being. You're welcome. |
Exactly! 😀
Hah!
You mean the "In fact, I'd go so far as to say your arguments would probably sway almost anyone, especially a newbie, who has not already heard directionality for himself."
You big bully! Even throwing in an unhappy Emoticon. Really though, other than in this fuse thread, directionality has not been often discussed (relatively speaking) except regarding what direction the arrows on cables that have them should be pointed.
I wonder, again other than pertaining to this fuse thread, how many people have actually heard a directionality difference? One in 5, one in 10, one in 500, two in 100,000?
|
jetter
188 posts
12-31-2016 12:44pm
I don't see any flaw in Al's discussion points. None whatsoever.
Exactly! 😀
|
I don't see any flaw in Al's discussion points. None whatsoever. |
Al and Mitch, and atmasphere - excellent arguments by all of you. In fact, I’d go so far as to say your arguments would probably sway almost anyone, especially a newbie, who has not already heard directionality for himself.
I especially like all the arguments regarding age, credentials, industry merit badges, and personal skepticism. Nice touch! 😀
Have a nice new year |
Good points by Mitch2, IMO. Who as he stated has tried SR Red and several other audiophile-oriented fuses, with unimpressive results, and whose audiophile credentials and experience are unimpeachable IMO. Frank (OP), regarding the comments by Warren Gehl about directionality, which you had cited in this thread on 10-6-2016, I had made the following suggestion in the subsequent post: If you have an opportunity to speak with Warren on this question again, you might ask him why any such effect is not completely swamped by the randomly oriented grain directions of the vastly longer lengths of wire that are in series with the fuse, that are conducting exactly the same current. Especially in the case of AC mains fuses, where the AC wiring in the component and in the primary winding of its power transformer, and the wiring in the component’s power cord, are all conducting that same current. Not to mention the wiring inside and outside of the house, which are also conducting that current in addition to other currents. Also, I would again call attention to the comments about fuse directionality that have been presented here by four different designers of well regarded audio electronics, as quoted by me in the first of my posts dated 10-28-2016 near the middle of this page of the present thread. Which are to the effect that for a fuse to have inherent directional characteristics is impossible. And as a very experienced electronics designer myself, in my case in the defense electronics field, I agree. And furthermore, as quoted in that post, one of those designers (Atmasphere) has explained why a fuse may **appear** to have inherent directional characteristics, but that he has experimentally found that the same audible and measurable effect can be accomplished by simply rotating the fuse in its holder. It is certainly true that technical understanding and analysis can neither explain nor predict a lot about what we hear or don’t hear from our systems. And in fact I have said on many occasions here that from a technical standpoint there are many things that by their very nature are inherently unpredictable. But technical understanding and analysis can explain and predict some things with certainty. Including the impossibility of fuses having inherent directional characteristics, IMO and that of the aforementioned designers. If people hear differences when the direction of a fuse is reversed, something other than inherent directionality is responsible. Regards, -- Al |
Yes indeed the fuse is the bottleneck in the power supply. Try this simple test for those brave enough to try :)
Replace the fuse with an appropriately sized solid core, pure copper lug of 6-10 gauge and hear the improvement. Hopefully your house will not burn down for this short listening test😁
These high end fuses are made to remove the fuse bottleneck. Yes I have done this with digital gear and liked the improvement. No fires. Never a problem. I am not suggesting anyone do this for longer than a short listening session. |
Geoff...
Hey, didn’t we solve the directional thingie a while back in this thread with Warren Gehl’s input about wire extrusion? "Solve" is such an absolute word in audiophile land where so much is uncharted and unexplainable. Do we need to revisit our previous discussion regarding not confusing testimony with fact?I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears a bunch of dudes on this thread, without mentioning any names, were somehow left off the distribution list for the memo regarding Warren Gehl’s input about wire extrusion.
As an update to all the "dudes," are you referring to this memo...
"Warren Gehl of Audio Research,
who listens to every product before it leaves the factory, not only hears
differences among different fuses, but he has found that they sound different
depending on the orientation within the socket, and he changes their direction
as he sees fit." or this one.... “I spoke with Warren Gehl at ARC
this morning and the conversation eventually got around to the directional
property of fuses and why they sound their best in one direction and defused
(no pun intended) in the opposite direction.
Warren said that its a metallurgy
situation and not an electrical one. According to Warren, when metal is
extruded (drawn) to make wire it affects the direction of the grain in the
metal. When the fuse is orientated in the direction of the grain, the sound
will be the best. When the fuse is in the opposite direction, it will sound as
though the system is out of phase.”
Does Warren ever explain how the "metallurgy situation" ends up manifesting itself as an "electrical one" so it can actually affect what someone hears from their system? I don't doubt that the grain in a wire could be affected by the extrusion process, and you may even be able to see that effect under an electron microscope, but given that the typical resistance variation of the one inch of thin wire in the typical "audiophile" fuse (such as the HFT gold or the Isoclean fuses measured and reported by HiFi Tuning) was about 1 mOhms or in some cases much less, which is about 0.001 Ohms or less, it is still a mystery to me how that minuscule amount of difference could possibly account for a noticeable, much less "dramatic" or "repeatable," difference/improvement of the sound of one's system, especially given the much greater resistances attributable to all the other wiring, parts and power supplies in a system's components, resistances of cables connecting the components, and variations in residential power. And yes, I have tried multiples of the fuses including HFT, Isoclean, Furutech and SR Red, and yes I have rotated them, and yes I still have my hearing, and no I am not listening on a walkman, but yet - nada..... Roger Modjeski may have put it best, "If a butterfly flew by.....we might see a bigger difference" Happy New Year to all |
