Eric, et al.,
I too prefer the sound of the impact, (Double Impact) ; ) of live music. The best sound, to me, is the true sound of ACOUSTIC instruments. That is the benchmark. ALL amplified music has coloration and the difficulty is in reproducing acoustic music via electronic delivery systems, and here is my point. With my current system, BAT and DI there really aren't any live broadcast systems that come anywhere near what I have in my living room. It used to be that I could enjoy this quality of music in Weil Hall at Sonoma State University but alas no more. The new director has wreaked havoc on the sound system there. ALL music amplification outside my house is a huge step down for me unless it is acoustic performance. My dream? I would love to see Eric produce a line of speaker for night clubs, small venues, stages, etc. that will rival my couch sound!!! Why must we endure the torture of terrible music everywhere when the possibility of great sound at a reasonable cost exists? I am forever ruined! |
Here is repeat of a much earlier post to address your question,
They did sound great right out of the shipping boxes,but I haven't owned a speaker yet that I did'nt mod and get better sound.
Even though I did buy a upgraded pair of Di's from Eric,I have upgraded farther with even better caps,inductors and resistors and some wiring.
I started with the crossover on the woofers,
The heavy duty Jantzen coil is fine I didn't change it but I did change the single cap and got rid off the sand cast resistor,I don't like that type,I think they can be noisy.From day one when I got the speakers I didn't like cosmetically the blue colored woofers with my black metallic paint so I changed to the Eminence beta which gave me black cones the stock ones are the alpha's with blue cones.The physical size including depth are the same but the specs are slightly different.The beta's are 2 Db more efficient in their specs of the driver in free air and they give me better bass and dynamics at very low volume levels and they equal or are slightly better defined bass at higher volumes.I also biwire mine with a single run of western electric 10ga wire that solders directly in the crossover,and I use the same wire to the woofers.The beta woofers cost 60.00 a piece from us speaker.I hear just better defined bass maybe tighter and does measure 2 to 3 db down at 20hz in room.
Now that's the easy stuff,I took a look at the crossover for the tweeters and mids and decided to change all caps,resistors,and coils to better parts IMO but I did'nt change any wiring,It's ok and would be a lot of work.
Even though my speakers sounded very good once broken in I couldn't leave them alone because I knew I could make them sound better,I basically gained overall smoothness and a tiny bit of clarity and coherence without hurting but only improving the magical midrange that these speakers have by design.
I wouldn't honestly recommend that everybody that owns a upgraded pair of Di's would want to incur the expense and time involved for the noticeable but modest gains in sound.
Basically what I'm saying It's a lot of work and it took me 2 whole days to do mine.
Take the time and remove a couple of tweeters and maybe the lwr mid and look at the crossover and you will have to decide if you want to tackle it.
One option might be just to change the little bypass cap on the tweeters input to better quality.
Overall I would say I gained a solid 3% gain in improved sound in every sonic apspect that I can think of.
With these sound improvements It doesn't make me in no hurry to upgrade to any other speakers,but my digital front end has seen some improvements as well in the last couple of weeks and as my budget allows I'm going to purchase a Music Vault M7 music server and I hope to have the best digital that I have ever heard,I was a analog guy for many years but I have'nt spun a LP in 3 weeks and I'm not missing it one bit.
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facten,
I posted something from kdude66 not my comments.
Greg
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kdude66,
well, thank you Kenny for your informative posts. I have enjoyed your insights and I wish you peaceful listening!
Greg |
Wow, no matter how many times I call and ask for the grills I paid for from Tekton I can't seem to get them! WTF? |
Just say you don't sell them and return the Money?
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mac48025
acoustic live, I love as well. Who are you listening to?
Greg
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mac48025
Great recording James Taylor Live
Kelly Joe Phelps
Chris Thomas Kind(not live)
Alison Krause and the Union Station
Cassandra Wilson (Really good!!)
Meshell Ndeocello, any CD is superb
Jack DeJohnette live with Ravi Coltrane and Matthew Garrison |
DI update,
the DI's have been running non stop since my purchase. So far they have loosened up and become more relaxed and fluid. the bass seems better to me. The only change that was made was in the first week when I decided to remove the anti-cable pc and replace it with my Zu Mother pc. big difference there. I am finding that my music is all discoverable again. Recordings are either good or not so good. Engineers tweak them. Some have too much bass, some are very compressed and need volume to kick everything up and out. Some are just incredible. These speakers are truly impressive, even without the grilles ; ). Addressing the posts about quality parts, service etc., could there be improvements? Sure ! We can see areas where they can be modified but for the money, for much much more money in fact, they can't be beat. This is the first time as one who listens to music and detail that I can really enjoy the sound, the sheer musicality of my system. The tone, texture, rhythm, nuances, and tremendous bass. Round punchy enveloping bass, unlike any other speaker I have heard. I could never afford what it would cost to beat these.
BATvk500 amp
BAT vk51se pre
BAT vkd5se cdp
Zu Mother power cords
Speltz anti-cable silver reference balanced ic's
Speltz anti-cable level 3 speaker cable, soon to be potentially surpassed by Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme speaker cable
no power conditioner
Two 20amp dedicated lines for amp,phase correct
All under ground electrical on grid
zero noise |
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Aniwolfe
which recordings? Cd titles would be helpful.
greg
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Aniwolfe
I will listen to some of those and get back to you. I do have great bass reproduction on many other titles though!
greg |
Aniwolfe
yes recordings werent weren't great because of their dynamics I think. Lots of sounds all up and down the spectrum made it difficult for accurate recording IMO however I am not a recording engineer and there are a few on AGON that might want to chime in?
greg
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Aniwolfe
geberally speaking, most of what I listen to has good articulate defined bass. I will listen to some of these tracks to see what I hear.
greg |
Klh007
Yah, Speltz has them for 3500.00, too much for me!
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Treebeard1 you have to sign for them. Inspect them for damage before signing! Damm, I wish I could get my grilles!
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aniwolfe
The only track I have is roundabout and I have consistent d]strong resolved bass line all the way. Every blessed note!
Greg |
@aniwolfe,
Can you hear the low level detail on"The Fish", Yes, in the backgorund? Like a symbol bell, or some other dull bell ?
@treebeard1 no, just look at the boxes for visible damage. If you call the fedex delivery station(local) they will give you a delivery window.
Greg
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Aniwolfe
I think it is supposed to be ion the center soundstage slightly left but far in the background |
Upgraded from Speltz's Anti-Cable level 3 reference speaker cable to CT GE speaker cable between my BAT vk 500 and the DI's. These are just ass kicking cables!! Black black background, super delineated and defined bass, very natural sound tone and timbre. Beautiful soundstage. Taller wider deeper. Zero harshness to be found. Choral voices all separated in an astonishing manner. Found out I can connect my desktop to my pre directly. YouTube live everything imaginable and the sound is incredible. Keith Carlock drum solo was like being there live and acoustic. The resolution is just beautiful. These are the most natural sounding cables I have heard and they are very very close to the real thing. A saxophone sounds acurate. Piano is just stunning. Violin is almost perfect and I am willing to bet that changing out the IC's will bring the sound much closer to real. There is something very delicate sounding about these cables. All the information is there. My brain was actually shocked at first because of the realism.
Thank you Bob! You ain't gettin' these back from me!
Greg |
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333jeffery
well, that is good news. Been waiting a couple months and was wondering when they might ship out. Called karma repeatedly and no firm date was given so resorted to calling every week!
greg
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All you guys talk about not enough bass, or needing more bass. I went the route of tube pre and SS amp. Bass rips! |
Tube output cdp with tube pre and ss amp. Seemed like a good combination at the time but I am curious about the 2170 since so many positive comments have been made about it |
ozzy,
Eric answers until about 12:00 or 1:00, Karma covers the 12:00 + and the rest of the day. They will take your order but if you wish to speak to Eric try mornings. He seems like a great guy to me. Had a couple of conversations with him and he really is enthusiastic about his work. I ordered the standard low gloss black and had them in 4 days. Speaker grills? Tuesday, in two days, 60 days from when I received my speakers. Since I am a self employed craftsman I absolutely understand Eric’s position.
Greg |
Can anybody tell me what the upgrades are on the DI SE? Specifically?
Greg |
@charles1dad
would that be the hybrid silver copper cap?
not sure exactly which one you used.
greg |
@charles1dad
possibly the PIO copper in foil CAST?
greg |
@grannyring
Interesting, the comment was removed!
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@grannyring
I think your comment opens the door to so many questions and for sure they really should be asked. Which speaker DID Terry review? what was the XO design and why has it changed since then? How does one really know what they are purchasing from TD if the design and parts keep changing. Were Terry’s DI’s and improved version that others do not have? Is Eric at TD still changing his design for the better or looking for cheaper ways to accomplish the same thing? Is this a bait and switch scheme? I am not a speaker designer, nor an EE, but I would like to see consistency in this product. How will this affect the resale? Which speaker config do I have? Maybe Eric @tektondesign would like to comment to prevent further speculation?
Greg
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@grannyring
I would have second thoughts about posting as well but the fact is these are great speakers AND there are anomalies that WE, the consumer, are trying to understand. In addition, and this is kind of big, these speakers are being recommended by Agon members as something special and yet we seem to have different versions of the seemingly same product and I find that disconcerting. I guess it is then fair to compare notes to see how the XO's, as well as wiring diagrams, differ from speaker to speaker.
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@grannyring I jus spoke with a friend of mine who has worked on Bozac speakers for years and Bozac has a tweeter array as well. He said Bozac changed the inductors and capacitors as well as wiring sequence for years so I guess it is a common thing! |
I think I would assume the TD continually strives for excellence in his products! |
Funny thing is that I doubt anybody would be pulling apart their Magico's and comparing notes. The other aspect is you CAN have different inductors and capacitors as your speaker wiring diagrams change, and I don't know the science behind it but Eric surely does! |
@grannyring so, there is one part of the equation, outstripped the supply chain, which is absolutely common today in any business. Second, tweaking based on parts available AND sound changes combined. Makes sense to me. To reiterate, I do think the passion of TD and Eric Alexander is to fa exceed anybodys' expectations, which he has clearly done! Is there a "Brilliant Speaker Designer" award? |
Thank you @tektondesign for your response. I wonder how many others have had to weather such scrutiny? |
@muzikmann. The question was rhetorical, and I actually have not seen posts to this extent evaluating every aspect of a component builders' methods or reasoning! Have you? I think what I really see here is people love the DI's and are thinking about them in a deep way . Exciting, isn't it? |
@muzikmann. I did not mean to come off against Bill in any way. I don't believe I did but Ido believe that a manufacturer has be consistent in their approach as does Bill. My guess was parts availability as well as sound tweaks that might be driving the differences in speakers. I purchased mine in September and I don't know what parts are in my speakers. If you read my posts you will see that I was basically on the same page as Bill. |
@grannyring
Ha! +1. I think the interest in these is incredible because the speakers are incredible!! |
@ozzy sorry man! I wish he wasn't this busy bug he is and that's good! Damn |
@agronatz $3000 for these IS cheap. The box they come in is cheaper, but if you remove the speakers carefully from the boxes it won't be that big of a deal to audition them and I can almost guarantee that you won't be sending them back anyway.
Greg
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@simao Yes, that or acoutisicophobia. |
@csmgolf nobody has made that determination and Eric won't say |
@klh007 yah, so it isn't known what the difference is and whether the extra 3000-3500 is actually worth the upgrade costs. |
In`ceramic sockets ? Seems hard to believe! |
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@aniwolfe yes, this is what they are and, as a fine furniture maker, I did not like it at first but they are actually fine. They define a squareish line while looking at them from the front. I have the black speakers and the black cloth is actually a dark brown. Blacks are hard to match anyway, but again, you only see it from certain angles and in certain lights. I like the grills because they take the attention off of the the speaker faces. They calm it all down. It would be rather difficult to round those tops of the grills, but it would be possible. Frankly I think they just tidy up the whole scene.
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So, I have to comment on the Tekton DI's after many hours and many changes in my system. The big change was replacing my BAT vk500 with the BAT VK55se. This has really made a huge difference. While the vk500 is a very very nice amp, sweet sound, unerring power, quiet, tube like and liquid, the 55se just blew this up to another level. The DI's can take any input effortlessly and put it out into the room in such a musical manner. All changes, no matter how small, are revealed. Power cord changes made the imaging more accurate, CT GE speaker cables brought tremendous soundstage and oh so black background. The CT GE IC's just reinforced it all. With an all BAT tube system the suppleness combined with a robust "meat on the bones" sound is really quite lively. The bass is to die for. Never have I heard such bass. The transients at all frequencies are incredible. On Herbie Hancock's 'Piano' I can hear his foot on the pedals in quiet passages. I have real trouble with Keith Jarrett jamming up the music with his off key howling, too much to take. The detail is superb from top to bottom. These speakers are really really good, and I haven't started the mods on them yet. Very detailed, very neutral. I got a chance to hear a pair of Magico M6. That left me with some interesting impressions of what a speaker could be capable of, both good and not so good. I knew I wanted to go tube when I heard, for the first time ever since as a kid listening to a tubed stereo console, an Atma sphere mk60 monos. I heard what a tube amp can do but they were thin sounding, very unlike the BAT 55se.
I am very happy with this sound, these speakers, this system to the point that I can really foresee just a few improvements left to get the best that these are capable of giving. If there is anybody on the fence with these speakers then take that leap and see for yourself that these are amazing. I have no affiliation with Tekton, nor do I receive any kind of payment for comments. I first read about these on this thread and simply took a chance because some of these dudes are pretty experienced with very good performing equipment that isn't expensive, relatively speaking. The all BAT tube system really puts this over the top for me even though there isn't a lot of information out there about the 55se, or even the vkd5se cdp. Again, thank you for putting it out there and especially @kdude66 and @grannyring for pushing the envelope even further!!!!
Best,
Greg |
@stfoth, my house is old and old in the winter moths but the ss vk500 threw out about the same amount. I can't see how monblocks would be any better with these as they are very efficient . |
@stfoth some people seem not to like the 6c33's for some reason. |
Out here in Northern California it seems that we can cycle all year round. Mountain biking tomorrow, road yesterday! |
