Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

All these leather mats are designed to be used with heavy record weights.
Use of them without weights is not creating a solid bond and also allows the lightweight mats to move against the platter....

A heavy weight will only create a solid bond in the center label area of the record, maybe slightly further. I think a clamp would be as affective preventing movement of both record and mat.

It's intriguing that people would rather theorise or speculate when the cost of actually trying and listening can be so minimal...👀❓

Fleib,
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1317949815&openflup&355&4#355
I have a number of record weights ranging from 450Gm to 600Gm.
They all perform their task adequately....

Lew,
I appreciate that Fleib has a deerskin mat....
It was the lack of a record weight and his doubt about its benefit that I was referring to...

TT-101
Here is an image of the innards of a TT-101
INNARDS
and here is one of the TT-81
TT-81
As you can see.....the TT-101 is considerable more complex.
Imagine trying to work on that if something goes wrong? :-)
Here is a posting from a couple of years ago from AudioKarma I think which explains the problems we, who own such exotica face:-
"I had an interesting conversation today with Tommy Cheuk, the owner of "Top Class Audio" here in Hong Kong. Some of you may know of him and his shop via the website; Tommy has been enjoying and selling hi-fi gear for many years, and has some of the finest stuff (especially turntables), to be found anywhere, period. If you are into turntables (tonearms, carts, step-up transformers and phono pres, etc...) his shop is a must-see mini-museum where all the nice rarities are for sale, albeit at often painful prices.

Because he often gets very rare stuff from Japan that I don't see elsewhere, I went by his shop to ask about accessories for my GT-2000. He commented that ever since a "club" had formed in Japan centered around this model, the prices of the accessories had been climbing steeply, with some Japanese even buying back and re-importing the TTs and accessories that made it elsewhere (like Hong Kong)! He said this --and the escalating prices-- was why you almost never saw them any more locally. [His words re-confirmed my feeling that I really did get a lucky bargain with mine! ] He said it was even worse for Hong Kong (and American) buyers now, due to the currency valuations. So these days he doesn't have any stock of GT-2000 stuff. Not good news for me, but I can live with it. I know I'll still get the things I want, from Japan, although some won't exactly be cheap.

While we were talking, another man came in looking for a Technics SP-10 or SP-12 Mk II or MK III (I forget which), and Tommy said that he no longer carried them! This surprised me, because I remember seeing several pass through his shop within the last year or two. To my surprise, he said he had stopped carrying them recently because the critical motor- and speed-control ICs were no longer available [i.e., they have become --HORRORS!-- "unobtanium"], so once these parts break down, the TTs cannot be repaired. He explained that this was increasingly true for several of the best models of direct drive TTs, so he been forced to stop dealing in, for example, the TOTL Victor (JVC) TT-801 and TT-101 models. He (Tommy) had personally had a 101 as his main player at home for over ten years, and then bought a beat-up "spare" for parts, but in the end had to throw both of them out, when the pitch/speed control ICs went bad. [He still has one in his shop, with three tonearms I drooled over, pictured here:http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng...ls.jsp?gid=907 ]

I asked if he could have found chips elsewhere, and he said no doubt there were still a few here and there around the world, but finding them was another story. Since these models were only sold domestically in Japan, there were never large stocks of parts overseas, and all the usual channels (authorized dealers and repair outlets) in Japan were 100% out-of-stock.

"Ditto" for several of the Denon direct-drive models.

What is worse, is that many of these chips are 96-prong (or something like that) devices with rows of connectors on all four sides, that require special "factory" desoldering tools to remove or install. In some cases, they were installed by these machines directly into surface-mount type boards, and the customary repair was to replace the entire board, because there is no way to safely remove the chip without damaging it. There are no more replacement boards for a good number of the models, and those that are left, are dwindling in number.

All the other components, such as resistors, capacitors, etc... are replaceable, and the TTs can be maintained for a long time, UNTIL either of those two critical IC chips go. When that happens, if there are still replacement chip stocks available, AND you can find someone (usually only the factory or their agents) who have the correct gear or replace it, OR if you can find a whole replacement circuit board (sometimes a necessity, sometimes just an option), then you can keep listening to your TT. But if the chips are gone, you have a beautiful doorstop...

He suggested that anyone owning any of the better 80s-era Japanese direct drives faces this problem sooner or later, and for some of the nicest models (those I mentioned above), the clock has essentially run out already, but on the good side, he said the best solution he knows of is to PLAY THEM OFTEN! Playing them frequently offers the best possibility to prolong their lives, especially in a humid climate like Hong Kong's.

Well, at least there was ONE good note (pun intended) in this rather depressing conversation!

We discussed the Rockport Sirius III that is sitting, unused and unplugged, in the corner of another showroom in the district. The people there say they know there is electronic circuitry inside which they don't want to "wear out", which is why they don't play it. I've suggested to them that playing it might be better than not playing it, but they seem not to believe it. Tommy chuckled and suggested that perhaps the thing had died BEFORE they unplugged it, and this is their face-saving excuse for not using it? I've heard that suggested by one other person before, so perhaps there is some truth to it(?).

I'm thinking now about strategies for trying to get and stockpile replacement parts/chips (if they are the replaceable kind)/boards for my DD TTs. For the GT-2000, I suppose buying a spare TT would be one approach, albeit an expensive one. I also have to find out what kind of chips are in the PL-L1, and if they can be found. Hopefully the same kind as in the later PL-L1000, as I'm sure if they were exclusive to the PL-L1, then they are basically unobtanium, by now. Even finding Pl-L1000 parts won't be too easy. And then there is the Sansui SR-929... And the Pioneer PL-C590. Hhhmmm, I suddenly feel a wee bit less confident in my collection of direct drive TTs!

Hope this didn't rain on the parades of any DD owners here. With careful maintenance (replace those aging caps and check the other stuff every decade or so, folks!), they may yet last for many more years, even decades. But once either of those critical two chips goes, cross your fingers that they are still available, or else you just became the owner of a very fancy doorstop!

Oh, and in case you think he had some commercial reason for saying all this, NO, he praises their absolute speed stability and great sound (as I said, he used them himself for years at home) and has sold the better Japanese DD tables alongside the better belt drives (incidentally, he had a couple of magnificent Micro Seiki thread drives there, one 1500 with gunmetal platter, another limited edition with gold-gilt platter) alongside other TOTL tables, including some DDs. No, I believe he was telling the sad truth. A truth I suppose we all know back in the deep recesses of the mind, but hate to have stated to our faces. The fact that he threw away two of Victor's all-time-best turntables because he was sure there was NO way to repair them any more... well, it just sickens me!

I think I'll start taking his advice, and playing MORE vinyl, to make sure all my DD TTs get enough of a workout to live longer! Maybe it will take my mind off of this train of thought.

Of course, I would probably last longer, too, with a little more exercise... "

Now if you own a vintage belt-drive or idler.......you face no such problems.
They are both readily fixed with parts available and no such reliance on electronics.
But great Direct Drives offer a speed accuracy and coherence which other drives can only dream of......so I guess we just live for the moment.....enjoy them whilst we can.......and hope for the best?
After all.......those that still work have lasted over 30 years now. What's another 30 for Japanese technology? :-)

Couldn't't sleep last night Hal? :)

Heh heh :^)

Wow, looks like an electronic pizza with the works....:-)

A good description Rockitman!
Thanks for all the responses.
Lew.....does the SP10MkIII look as complex inside as the TT-101?
What occurred to me is that all that electronic complexity is probably a late 70s attempt at a 'computer'?
Today, it all could be accomplished by one tiny chip? That's probably how the new DD NVS turntable does it?
Why wouldn't other manufacturers revert to computer controlled DD I wonder? Kinda like emulating the success of the great Japanese ones of the past?

You're right Hiho about the flimsy bottom cover to both the TT-81 and TT-101 and when I tried to support the TT on the three spikes positioned inboard of the edges.......the table was able to be rocked by grabbing the outer edges and twisting.
However when I moved the cones so that their centerlines coincided with the centreline of the vertical edge of the cover (in other words.....the cones half protruded from the bottom edge)......I could induce no movement whatsoever. No wracking, no twisting......utter stability :^)
I think both you and Lew are correct about the advantages of core-less motors which both the TT-81 and TT-101 share.
The interesting thing was that the 81 and 101 share everything in terms of construction, motor, platter etc and the only ostensible difference is in speed detection and correction with the TT-101 having double bi-directional monitoring and correction.
When I slid the 101 into the same place as the 81..... The difference in sound was astonishing?
If you click my 'Systems' page you can read a treatise I posted there by Peter Moncreif who maintains that accurate instantaneous speed control is the fundamental role of the TT.
So it would be interesting to know what the speed detection and correction abilities of the Kenwood and the SP10 are? Perhaps that's where the heavy platter and high torque motor of the Technics come to the fore?
Regards
Henry

Thanks guys.........particularly Lew and Ralph.
I did sleep better last night :^)

Dear Aigenga,
My 'Brother' :-)
How fortunate we both are to have these tables?
Don't worry about cleaning the bearings and changing the oil.......there is no oil and the bearings need no maintenance.
At least that's what the Service Manual says.
You can download both of these on Vinyl Engine.
I hope your tech knows what he's doing and does a good job?
It will be interesting to hear your reports back?
Please keep us informed :-)
Cheers
Henry

Thanks for that information Hiho.
I didn't appreciate that the TT-81 didn't have a coreless motor?
Can anyone explain the advantages of one over the other?
Are there still 24 poles so that there are 24 impulses every revolution?

Aigenga,
I'm currently using the excellent Victor rubber mat which comes with the TT-101 (note that this is slightly different to the one which comes with the TT-81).
I find that these 'ringing' platters cry out for the damping abilities of these mats as I believe Victor also realised and perfected?
On top of this I place the suede (pigskin) mat made by Victor especially for these tables. These are available form Tommy at TopClass for $130.
I tried the Millenium carbon fibre mat directly on the aluminium platter which was not as good and also tried it on top of the rubber mat which was not bad....but the above combination I settled on works well for me at the moment.
I'm tempted to try the heavy 1Kg+ gunmetal Micro Seiki mats but the costs ($1000-$2000) make it too risky for me?
Oh and please don't spend any money on an outer ring unless you use it with an undamped metal platter.
Here is a thread precisely about my findings on these
OUTER RING

Doesn't it seem odd....if a coreless DC motor produces no cogging and sounds so 'fluid', relaxed and unfazed.....that a manufacturer would be foolish to even contemplate an alternative design?
I mean is the price difference between the two types hundreds of dollars?
I wouldn't imagine so?

Lew,
I think the Victor TT-101 originally sold for 165,000 Yen whereas the TT-81 sold for 75,000 Yen?
Big difference but the complexity of all the variable 'pitch' options plus the dual bi-directional servo sensors all contribute as well as the motor difference.

Ah Radicalsteve,
The luxury of two TT-101s ?:^)
Interesting comments on the two metal mats.
I assume you are thus using no damping on the aluminium platter?
Can you describe the differences in sound you hear with these mats over the standard rubber?
Would be appreciated?

Thanks for those images Hiho...and all the informative comments.
Regards
Henry

Hi Aigenga,
Strange you should mention stethoscope?........I just bought one last week and have been madly scouring all my shelf positions, motors, platters,,tonearm supports and plinth.
I have absolutely no motor hum whatsoever from the TT-101.....and that's placing the stethoscope on the metal motor surrounds, the aluminium control fascia and even the platter( with the motor on but the platter not spinning).
I'm surprised your Techi didn't check out the working performance after changing out the caps as you said there was noise in the bearings as well?
Something is amiss. Hope you find it?

Aigenga,
Does your TT-101 have the grounding cable attached to it?

stethoscope. I use my to listen to my neighbours. She is
unbelievable beautiful and I am waiting to 'hear' any mistake he may make.

Ahh Nicola......what would we do without you? :^)
Yes Lew.....stethoscope is good for finding 'nodes' on a shelf however we have to be careful how we interpret these as.....on a wall-hung shelf....the only way to find these are by dynamic loading.......ie tapping.
There is....as far as I know.....no direct correlation between this and air-borne sound transmission?
The TT-101 (like all Japanese-only products) is designed to run on 100 volts.....not 110v as you have in USA. Could that be the cause of Gary's hum?
I have a 240v to 100v step-down transformer between the GPO and the TT-101.

I just purchased a Micro Seiki Cu180 platter mat for my TT-101 which sounds wonderful.
Cu180
As it weighs 1.8Kg however.....and the Victor 101 motor is not as high torque as the SP10/II or III.....I'm a little worried as to possible damage to the motor and/or bearing?
The motor of the 101 has a 'brake' stop function which stops the platter beautifully and almost instantly when it has its standard rubber mat plus record.
However it is not a 'dead-stop' as I believe the SP10 has and now with the added weight of the Cu180.....the platter continues to spin after the stop button is pressed.
Could this potentially harm the motor?

I don't know what it is Aigenga.......but the Cu180 improves both frequency extremes in a consistently audible manner :^)

I can't sleep well at nights worrying about this extra drag on the Victor motor :^(
Have returned the stock rubber mat plus suede leather Victor mat on top.
In this case......improved sound takes a back seat.

The Cu180 on its own does have a slight brittleness in the highest frequencies but if one places a very thin leather, suede or felt mat on top, this vanishes and the bottom end solidifies even further.
I've reached a compromise by eliminating the Victor rubber mat and placing the very thin Victor suede (pigskin) mat directly on the aluminium platter.
This gives me almost the same advantages of the Cu180 yet the platter stops dead and reverses slightly exactly as the manual dictates.

Hi Dover,
I'm not so worried about the extra weight on the bearing although I hear what Aigenga says.
The TT-101 has a 'brake' action when you press the stop button but it is not a dead stop that apparently the SP10s have......rather, it 'brakes' and then provides an instantaneous reverse thrust of the motor to bring the platter to a halt and then the motor 'disconnects' from the platter.
With a heavier platter than was designed....the 'brake' and 'reverse thrust' action of the motor is simply not strong enough to stop the platter and I fear that the continual fight against the inertia of the heavy platter will eventually do damage to the motor?
I don't want to risk that :^(

Hiho,
Those spikes look suspiciously like Chris'?
Did you take up his generous offer?
I think they are a fine solution.
Wouldn't work on the Victors though, as the aluminium circular extrusion is multi-faceted. It does not have a flat surface or space to enable the legs to sit in a stable manner.

Yup.......that's Chris' turntable and arm combo :^)

Thuchan is correct.
With the Cu180 platter mat and the Victor thin suede (pigskin) mat on top, it improves the sound over the bare copper mat.
It is even better than thin felt and it doesn't need to be stuck down.
A nice heavy record clamp will help it form a delicious 'coupled' and 'decoupled' bond to the main turntable platter :^)

Hi Lew,
The pigskin mat I purchased from Tommy at Topclass
SUEDE
It is paper-thin and IMHO.....a perfect partner for the Micro Cu180 platter mat.

Dear Geoch,
Are you saying that because we don't fully understand the principles governing that which we hear through our systems, we should not believe our ears?

What a shame Banquo,
I really feel for you :^(
I hope you didn't outlay too much on this tragic episode?
I must admit that looking at the photos of the innards of the TT-101 that I posted.......I can't imagine it worthwhile trying to 'track' a problem?
So far mine is working faultlessly.
I can only enjoy.....and pray?

Gee Gary,
You and I are not only brothers......we are twins!!?
I too have my TT-81 covered in the attic as an emergency spare should the need arise?
Gary's idea is not a bad one Banquo.....as the TT-81 can be had quite cheaply and is certainly more plentiful (and less complex) than the TT-101?
Regards
Henry

I'm wondering what Bill Thalmann said?
He is supposed to be the guru for SP10s and it would surprise me if he thought the TT-101 was 'over his head'?

Greetings Banquo,
Signs of life??.......that sounds hopeful.
Did you form any meaningful impressions in the time you were able to listen?

Good luck from hereon in.

JVC QL-10
Someone in the US got lucky today.
Hopefully he might contribute here?
This one looks like a beauty?

Dear Raul,
I've also heard good comments on that JVC arm.
The plinth for the QL-10 is also a cut above the average.....although the armboard does not look like it would suit a 12" arm?
Time to go 'nude' methinks?!

Regards

To avoid hijacking Peterayer's Timeline Thread any longer.......I thought that we could post our recent travails with our vintage DD turntables in this more appropriate Thread......

Lewm has had a litany of problems with his TT-101, but has recently had it running more or less correctly at his home.

My Victor TT-101 began misbehaving about a month ago and whilst it was at the Technician's for a complete rebuild......I had my back-up TT-81 to play with.
Here are the innards of the TT-81 which is quite a bit different to that of the TT-101.
Another view of the TT-81 showing the single-sided PCB compared to the stack double-sided PCBs of the TT-101.

Today I picked up my TT-101 after the replacement of every single capacitor and the removal and replacement of all solder points and joints (thanks Banquo).
In other words....it has been completely rebuilt!
The most difficult problem apparently....was diagnosing and repairing the intermittently malfunctioning Power switch.
The switch works by way of a circular 'gear drive' which moves one position at each click which in turn activates the actual switch??
Why they design it this way is a mystery to me.....but after lubricating the gear drive and still finding the fault via a 'spark' from the switch......the Tech replaced the switch.
I have had one listening session today...and so far so good......:-)

OK...let's try this again.....
TT-101
TT-81
TT-81
Yes Banquo......the TT-81 is a stunning performer as well....although I need to now listen to the differences with my 'new' rebuilt TT-101?
Initial impressions are that the 'old' TT-101 had suffered audibly before its demise and the 'new' TT-101 appears to be a 'new' animal?

I think that the information from Caligari about the motor differences may be correct as the Service Manual for the TT-81 specifies the motor as "DC Servomotor" whilst the TT-101 manual specifies "Coreless DC servomotor".......

I could happily live with the TT-81 nevertheless.....

I have been liaising with a keen audiophile in Crete by the name of Antonis who has designed and assembled a 'sprung platform base' for the 'nude' mounting of his TT-81
I think he has done a marvellous job and his solution certainly addresses Lew's concerns regarding the armpods and turntable relationships....?
The 'Movement' appears to be gaining strength? :-)

Thanks Banquo,
I think my whole TT-101 is in amazing condition.
I counted up in the manual.....and there are 90 capacitors and my Tech replaced them all.......
He said that when he removed all the old solder joints.....there was so much black smoke in his workshop...that his wife thought the place was on fire :^)
He seems to have done a great job of re-building the deck...and he is young, talented and thorough....so it bodes well for the future?
Perhaps we aren't living dangerously...as long as there are good Techs around?

I didn't have the bearing re-lubed as the manual says it is sealed and never needs it. The platter turns so freely and is totally noiseless.....so if it ain't broke....?

Antonis' sprung bases appear to be 1" thick granite slabs with stainless steel and/or aluminium sheets laminated top and bottom in an attempt at creating Constrained Layer Damping.....however, I think he may have erred in his understanding of the principles?
Had he placed the aluminium sheet between two slabs of 1/2" granite with joint adhesive of viscoelastic consistency.....it may perform better.
Alternatively a material like plywood between the granite sheets seems a better choice as metal sheeting shares many of the same acoustic properties of stone?
The supports for his TT-81 and for the tonearm pods are solid stainless steel rods but the interesting choice appears to be that of the turntable supporting ring which I simply can't make out?
I'll have to ask him.....
I'm sure it sounds fabulous and he seems to confirm that at the first few listens....

Wonderful information, photos and Links from HiHo as usual.........
I really think from the descriptions of the TT-81 and TT-101 motors in their respective Service Manuals....that HiHo and Caligari are correct about the TT-81 NOT being a 'coreless' motor?
As for me taking apart my TT-81.......HaHa HiHo.....and you too Banquo....:-)

But for your collection of images HiHo......here are all the ones I have of my TT-81:-
TT-81
TT-81
TT-81
TT-81

If the TT-71 and TT-81 motors are the same......why have the two models?
The TT-71 motor is described as "12-pole, 24-slot, DC type FG servomotor with Starting Torque of more than 1Kg-Cm and Drift per hour of 0.0001%"....whilst the TT-81 motor is described as "DC Servomotor with Starting Torque of 1.3Kg-Cm and Drift per hour of 0.0004%".
These are different specifications with the added benefit of the TT-81 having quartz-locked positive and negative servo control as does the TT-101.
Perhaps the most defining clue to the differing motors is in their Power consumption...13 watts for the TT-81 and 15 watts for the TT-71.

HiHo,
Your interest in the Victor motors seem to have been ignited by your experiences with the TT-71.....is that correct?
Your research, photos and Links are certainly invaluable to this Data Base.
I haven't heard a TT-71...but I know the Professor (Timeltel) has one and is quite pleased......
I have more than five times the expense invested in my TT-101 over the TT-81....and would love to say that the performance difference is worth the cost....?
Unfortunately (or fortunately)...that is not the case and I can honestly say that I can hear no differences between them.
But is that really so strange?
Apart from the added complexity of the electronics and the coreless motor.....the rest of the architecture of the two TTs are identical.
Same platter....same materials...same dimensions and structure and same quality of electronic parts.
As you can see from the Timeline videos of the two TTs.....their speed accuracies and consistencies are identical....so why wouldn't they sound the same?

As they are the best sounding turntables I have heard in 40 years.....the TT-81 must be the bargain of the century? :-)

Hearing back from Antonis about his TT-81 plinth......I was wrong about the granite slabs I thought he used.......
Instead of granite slabs.....he has designed and constructed some exotic stressed skin panels utilising bauxite balls and epoxy sandwiched between two sheets of aluminium.
You can see it all here
Who needs (new) turntable manufacturers when we have inventive and knowledgeable audiophiles able to utilise the best DD turntables ever made?

Lewm,
The speed problems on my TT-101 were not caused by the Power Switch.
The Power Switch began playing up (not turning OFF) about 6 months ago....and that's when I discovered the benefits of leaving the Victor 'powered up' 24/7.
Surprisingly....when I began doing that (out of necessity).....the switch began working again but switching it OFF.....produced the fault again.
That's when I wrote about the benefits of 24/7 Power for solid state DD turntables.
My Tech replaced the switch which is activated by a gear drive which advances one click at every press of the POWER switch......however in doing so....a small glitch appeared whereby when the power switch is activated now.....the platter starts spinning immediately whereas previously one needed to press either the 33 or 45 to start the platter.
As I now keep the unit powered 'ON' 24/7....this is not an issue for me.
Another glitch since the repair is the brake function which you mentioned.
Previously when the 'STOP' button was pressed...the platter instantly stopped due to the reverse current in the drive circuit....and then reverse spun for a second before stopping. This reverse spin was due to my removal of the stock heavy rubber platter mat which I have substituted with the lightweight Victor pigskin.
Now however, when the 'STOP' button is pressed.....the platter instantly stops but reverse spins for a few seconds longer than it previously did.
I don't know whether to have this and the Power Switch issue looked into at the end of my 3 month Warranty period?

The reason I finally had to take the TT-101 to the Tech was that the digital speed read-out began indicating widely varying speeds at both 33.33 and 45 rpm.
Since the caps and soldering replacement.....this appears to be solved.

Interesting story HiHo......
I agree with you about the sound of violins on a DD.
Perhaps even more so than the piano.....the holding and modulation of a single string when bowed, can reveal the truth about accurate and consistent speed control of a turntable. More than with any strobe or even the Timeline.....with a solo violin there is nowhere a mediocre turntable can hide and if you haven't heard one on a great DD.....you may not even realise it?

It does seem odd though to cram all the added circuitry of the 101 just for the sake of the readout. And to expect people to pay nearly $1k more for it in 1977.

This is a quote from the DirectDrive Website....

At the end of the 70s the japanese audio-industry was in a unique position. They had gained control over the worldwide audio-market, the Yen was cheap and big numbers of well-educated engineers brought one innovation after the other out of their laboratories. The "golden age" of audio had risen - those were exciting times with many new models being developed and announced in regular intervals. At the end of the 70s there really was a sort of race between the mayor-players introducing ever bigger, better and more sophisticated turntables sometimes at very high prices. To understand this you have to know that the Compact-Disc at that time was close before introducing, almost every audiophile had a turntable already so the mid-class market was set. Apart from these reasons the analog flagships of that time were image- and prestige-products of the japanese companies often subzidized by their mass-market brothers.
Machines like the Sony PS-X9, the Trio/Kenwood L07D, the Technics SP-10MkII or the Denon DP-100 were built in a "cost-no-object" attitude that never again arises out of Japan. The best materials, excellent Build-quality, oversizing of all parts and innovative ideas were the characteristical ingredients of the top-decks at that time.
Those machines marked the end of an evolutionary process with non-measurable Wow & Flutter or noise-specifications and they had a sonic quality that even by nowadays standards is state-of-the-art. But 1982 the CD finally arrived and it was the beginning of the end for those machines. All japanese companies concentrated their engineering efforts towards "digital". Production-costs had risen and the Yen was standing higher making export of audio-gear more expensive. This was the time when the cost-cutters arrived and soon dominated the engineers. The analog-battleships developed in the late 70s and early 80s were the first products that were killed by this new ideology. Like Dinosaurs they had become bigger and bigger and now they're end had come.

As you might already know, Halcro, the force of the reverse current can be calibrated via adjustment of variable resistors in the circuitry.

I didn't know this Banquo...so thanks :-)

VPI DIRECT
Direct Drive AND MM cartridge........are folks actually listening now.....?

Kind of gutsy for HW to point out the problems inherent in belt drive, elsewhere in this blurb, since he has made a living from belt drive heretofore.

Yes.....seems kind of strange...?
Almost like Linn coming out and saying they've finally seen the light......and it ain't belt-drive?!

What is equally amusing to me is the fact that the motor Harry uses in his DD....is the same as that used by Continuum in their Caliburn and Criterium turntables designed over 10 years earlier whilst his 3D printed arm follows the Continuum Cobra and Copperhead initiative again produce 10 years earlier?
Methinks Harry has had meaningful conversations with Mark Doehmann...the original design chief at Continuum?

Sorry to hear of your continuing hassles with the TT-101.....
One suggestion I have (as this intermittent fault will never seem to replicate itself in front of witnesses.....is for you to take the TT-101 downstairs to you listening room and remove the metal protective shroud, plug it in and play it.
If it works like it does in the kitchen.......continue on till it misbehaves at which point touch and move all the connecting wiring and see if that affects it?
I'm not convinced by your 'movement' theory.....but as the turntable CAN perform properly at various locations for long periods of time......there should be no reason why it can't be made to do so down in your listening room?

Alternatively....when the problem presents itself.....follow the 'Troubleshooting' procedures outlined on p.25 of the Service Manual. They are very detailed and clear.
From a brief scan of this page related to your problems.....I would bet on one cracked or broken wire or a malfunctioning transistor/s....
Both relatively easy fixes?

Thuchan sends his greetings......
The funny thing was that the Sony PS-X9 was located only 10 miles from where he lives.......so he drove it home very slowly.
He hasn't had time to listen to it as he leaves today for sunny climes.....

....there must be an adjustment to accommodate the precise weight/rotational mass of the platter + mat, to make the STOP button work exactly right.

P.22 of the TT-10 Service Manual.....

D. Quick stop adjustment:-
* With the turntable mounting two 30 cm LP records rotating at 33 1/3 rpm, depress the stop button, then adjust VR647 until the turntable stops without reverse movement.
* Set the turntable to 45 rpm and mount a 30 cm LP record (approx. 200 gm) then adjust in the same manner using VR646.
* Confirm that the turntable without a record and running at 33 1/3 or 45 rpm is stopped by the quick stop after slight movement forward.

So by using any weight of mat desired....one may adjust the Quick Stop mechanism by way of the two variable resistors as Banquo mentioned earlier.
This Quick Stop mechanism is independent of the platter speed and servo controls which can be easily verified by checking the speed consistency and accuracy with a variety of mats using the Timeline.....

Glad Chris helped you Downunder.....😀
His ingenuity, understanding and competence in all things audio are unequalled in my experience...
I took back my TT-101 to have him adjust the variable resistors for the platter brake system.
As I discovered....Victor added this feature to allow for the differing weights of various mats...and as I changed to only a thin Victor pigskin mat directly placed on the aluminium platter.....the brake system didn't perform as required. It took Chris precisely 20 minutes to adjust them ( one for 33.3rpm and one for 45rpm). No charge...😘 and they work perfectly..

I would waste no time in having him replace all the electrolytics in your P3.
Since my TT-101 had its done....the speeds are consistently perfect 😜

As Halcro and I know, there is NOTHING in turntable land quite as complex as a Victor TT101.

Amen....😱⁉️....unfortunately...😬

By the way Lew....are you actually listening to a 'working' TT-101? 🎼🎵🎶

Thanks for the Link Hiho...😍
Very interesting.....and nice music as well...🎶
I have seen that done before...as well as two Micro Seiki turntables running in line....using the one motor and a flywheel arrangement..👀
I studied this arrangement shown in the video for a long time.....whilst being somewhat troubled 😧 without knowing exactly why......⁉️
(Answer to the puzzle at the bottom of the page...😊)

This video demonstrates clearly how much 'thinking' some Japanese (and European) audiophiles put into the theory and philosophy of the turntable question...🔎🎼🔍💡😍
I love his obvious 'Copernican' view of the turntable surrounded by massive armpods 😘....and the 20" straight tonearm is fabulous...😜👏
He obviously prefers the ability to eliminate skating forces (no off-set angle on the headshell)....for the slightly increased distortion of 'tracking error'...⁉️
I wish I could see how he runs the thread from the heavy stainless steel platter mat on the Victor DD turntable 👀❓That is one massive 'pulley motor' 😎
Notice also his full horn speaker system....🔝🔚....obviously being powered by SET valve amps (although we don't see them 😰).

Answer to puzzle

The advantage of the very best DD turntables over belt-drives IMO....is their ability to cope with 'stylus drag' due to their torque and correction circuitries.
With the quartz-controlled motor attached to the platter and in close proximity to the stylus....any slowing of the speed due to 'stylus drag' is instantaneously corrected AT THE SOURCE..👍
When the stylus is separated from the correction circuitry by a thread a metre or more away.......the 'stylus drag' has a 'delayed' input which simply puts the quartz control 'out of sync'....😰

Would love to see photos or videos of some of your experiments Hiho....😉
You're a 'thinker' and 'doer'.....and we need more of those...👍

Kind regards....