Kublakhan,
I didn't take your comments to mean you were arguing or debating! Not in the least. I don't know much about Coltrane, the man. My comment about "it's people I don't get" was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek and to refer to people in general, not anyone specifically.
As for Coltrane, I know and love his music. All I know about him otherwise is that he had a heroin problem for quite a while, but that he became very spiritual later. |
Nrchy - You plucked out two ringers that I was trying to think of myself. PJ just grates on me and I've tried several albums on numerous occassions. KD's got a great voice but I just can't get into her songs for some reason.
Tomryan - I'm still laughing about the Red M&M's! Reminds me of that great Kevin Spacey film, Swimming with Sharks. I do happen to like some of Springstein's music though. Just shoot me.
Enjoy Nirvana at times in small doses, as I do some other 'unlikely' bands when you consider my broader tastes. In those realms I do really enjoy Tool and Filter in small doses if I'm in the mood. These kind of unlikely preferences keep me way open to all kinds of music. I'll always give something a try, at least a few times.
Not a fan of opera overall, but have heard and been drawn to many gorgeous passages of opera music, and performers whose voices defy confinement. How could you not be moved by someone like Cecilia Bartoli?!
Marco |
What is PJ Harvey all about? I don't get it! I tried to like K D Lang too, but it didn't take. Must be the intial thing... |
Interesting about Nirvana and Kurt. If you like rock, as something other than entertainment value, or some form of mind numbness ( T. Adorno, Aesthetics Theory), Nirvana, had
some interesting things to say, with some blazing chordal progressions, white heat kind of music. Maybe in some very limited way the last of the great rock bands, that had roots from the 60s and 70s. Having said that, I do appreciate the White Stripes, and the Yeah, Yeah Yeahs, as a take on garage band music of the 60s with a tinge of punk.
After Charlie Patten and Robert Johnson, there is not one artist I like for acoustical blues.
After Muddy Waters( the best concert I every saw) and Howlin' Wolf, there is not one artist I like for electric blues.
After Bo Diddley and Buddy Holley, most of the 50s music is
horridly unoriginal (Maybe Fats and Chuck B.), and even their music is highly uneven.
After the Yardbirds and Rolling Stones, most of the 60s music is a take off of their styles.
After Led Zeppelin, most of the 70s stuff is absolutely wretched.
After REM, most of the 80s stuff is bland and boring.
After Nirvana, most of the 90s stuff is unlistenable whining.
I cannot say anything affirmative or negative about the 00s.
It is not that I do not like other artists, but most of is not important or not very artistic, in a aesthetic way. In a very perverted way, I could listen to the Beep Beep song
by the Playmates, it was funny and entertaining.
There is only one pop group I cannot stand in any shape or
form and that is the Beatles.
Country music: After Hank Williams Sr. what more could be said or done, about drinking and lovin'.
Bluegrass: After Bill Munroe or Flat and Scruggs......
Jazz: After Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker........
Classical: Stravinsky was the biggest fraud.
Now that I got that of my chest: Pick up some Alfred
Schnittke and play it loud or G Ligeti and play it even
louder! Probably the most dissonant, incredibly dense
harmonically structured music I have ever heard. I want
more, makes Webern and Schoenberg look like gushing romantics that they were. |
Please Viggen, give Orff's "Carman Burana" a try. It turned me into a hunter of those rare pieces of musical, non-vocal domineered, opera. (Ooops, I said that word again)!
Having said that - Sorry to have driven so many to write so much.
Many of you have brought up The Greatful Dead. I agree. I don't get it, BUT the "Shakedown Street" is a great album especially for it's "vibe". |
I rest my case................. |
Opera for sure. I really cannot see what there is to listening to something I need a program to tell me what is being said. I can appreciate the range which some of the singers can hit, but I cannot see anything on it besides that. Most C&W I do not like either and the syuff that is out today is R&R Country. I could appreciate Hank Williams that was Country to me.
FOr Rock I have not come to understand much of Radiohead ,but I have just started to listen to it.The Dead I really do not see much in,but there are a few songs I can appreciate. Never got into the whole Dead scene though ,guess it just went right over my head without stopping to say hey Dude!
Dave Matthews has a few good tunes like "don't drink the water", but the rest go nowhere to me.
The ENYA thing is really stupid to me! Sounds like Mumbles and a woman having an orgasm on drugs! Maybe 1 song I can tolerate. The Cranberries remind me of Enya , but at least they have a voice with words. Kinda having an Orgasm with words.
Some of this stuff I will still try to listen to the stuff with the exception of Opera.
I could make a whole list, but I will stop banging the drum! |
Campbell speaks the truth again. have you been meditating or reading the krishnamurti again? i also think springsteen is sincere. Bono is another story all together.
rock virgo referenced limos in regard to these super rich musicians who started in poverty: springsteen once said he doesn't like riding in a limo. he said it's only fun when you know you're not supposed to be in one. that's thinking a long time back for him but at least he still gets it.
Tom waits is someone who really HAS avoided the pitfalls of success and remained humble, always experimenting with his music, pushing himself, unconcerned with public reaction and certainly unconcerned with the way he dresses (joan rivers wont be asking him from what designer he got his tux from anytime soon.) |
cpdunn99 - what don't you get about Coltrane the man? that's a very interesting comment. i'm very curious. i might agree even! please let me know. (do you like his music but just dont get him as a person? his philosophy of music, the way he lived his life??) i really am interested, not looking for an argument at all. |
Most gazillionaires have a time honored method for keeping in touch with the beat on the street: they quiz their chauffeurs! :^) |
Jax2 to answer your thoughtful post-I agree with every word you wrote and I think anybody's opinion is as valid as my own and sure differences of opinion are part of what makes the world go round but.........
I still think it's a dumb thread because some people clearly just don't get or like some music.
That ranges from The Beatles to Opera.....that don't dislike it for any reason than that they don't and that's my point-take a big enough straw poll and you'll get every band or musical form named.
If somebodys got an individual take or some insight then fine but otherwise it's just a list and a never ending one at that................. |
Tomryan-Sprinsteen has approached that subject himself on the Human Touch/Lucky Town records-there's a line about "a rich man in a poor man's shirt"-he's well aware of that dichotomy within his work.
He's pissed me off in recent years with his record releases-10 Tracks having two songs not on the 4 CD box-set Tracks struck me as bleeding the fans dry.
He's not the man he used to be as regards that.
As for bombast,I'm sure live there is still a lot of that but as regards his music he's done very stripped down records reflecting his musical roots of country,blues and folk music.
As a writer he has carved out a niche and is probably the best living songwriter about reflecting the struggle of everyday life,it's failures and it's darkness and that is a pretty universal message-that's why his music has travelled so well around the world,sure it's about America on the surface but beneath his work is about humanity.
The mid-80's image of Born In The USA Bruce is something he'll perhaps never shake off.
As for his inspiration I'm sure it comes from everywhere,his own local community was devastated by 911 and all he had to offer (apart fom his charitable donations which he is famous for)is his music.
I don't like everything Springsteen has done but I don't think he ever wrote a word he didn't mean.
And that's more important than whether he's a multi-millionaire or not. |
There is no music that I don't "get." It's all music. It's people that I don't get.
Greatest, in my mind:
Dylan (popular/rock)
John Coltrane and Kenny Dorham (jazz)
Other: Martin Stephenson and the Daintees |
I'm surprised bombastic, pretentious, and constantly straining to be hip Bruce Springsteen hasn't gotten more votes. I get a head and throatache just hearing/seeing him. Does anyone else think it's funny people like Springsteen (and many others) who have been powerfully rich, pampered, and insulated for decades still write tunes about the "common man"? Where do they get inspiration, from one of the lackeys who makes sure they never have to see a red M&M? |
Ben- It is our differences, as well as our similarities, that makes life so rich and keeps things interesting. If we all liked the same things life would be pretty boring I think. In spite of your thinking this was a "dumb" thread (I get cranky too and have had similar knee-jerk reactions to things when I am, especially when it strikes at something at my core as you so eloquently have confessed), you have made some interesting contributions yourself and I would guess you may have gotten some 'value' from the insight necessary to write what you have. I guess I'm simply suggesting that is not a "dumb" thread at all. Perhaps if you apply the way you approach music (per your last paragraph) to how you view others points-of-view (simply try to understand them, recognize they may be different than yours, and also realize that you may also have much common ground as we all do) you may open yourself up to a whole new world of possibilities, as you do with the music! You don't need to change people at all, nor defend yourself or anyone else ...appreciate them for who they are, just as you are able to be so open to such a diverse selection of music.
Thank you for your candid thoughts...and I am not at all being sarcastic. I appreciate that they make me think about this stuff too.
Marco |
Jax2-you are right to call me on that Movie thread but that was also born out of frustration out of what I saw as a completely pointless thread (most overrated album if I remember right).
What I thought I did was take a very humourous stance on movies I hated..I meant it but I thought I added something different..I guess part of my problem on this thread is seeing so many artists I admire being slated...
That's not a problem in itself but I think it would be pointless to write why I think that artist is great to a person who has clearly such fundamental problems stretching themselves to "understanding" that music.
Music is my passion,we can't like everything for sure but to not "get anything" strikes at my core,I need to at least try to understand music and I'm actually arrogant enough to state there's nothing I didn't get or realise on some level is giving someone something......I might not like it the way I don't particularly like strawberries.
|
kinsekd wrote: "I've never been able to listen to Bob Dylan without getting a headache...Same goes for The Grateful Dead. Maybe I wasn't doing the right drugs or something."
Are there WRONG kinds of drugs to take while listening to The Grateful Dead?
I guess my post mentioning the Dead was deleted because of a naughty word i used to describe Celine Dion so i'll say it again: i never liked the Dead until i saw a concert, then i 'got it.' but the music you hear on their cds and lps (unless live) doesn't have anything to do with their live stuff which is what everyone is referring to when they say they are Dead fans. i dont understand the short studio cuts either... i wish someone could explain this to me. the dead sings about being on the run from the law, having kids around the country from women they knocked up, being in jail... this doesn't go with the vibe i got at the concert at all. |
FREE JOHN COLTRANE! to those in need, only, please.
really. if you dont get coltrane (or some part of his career) and you're interested email me privately and let me know what you don't like or understand and i'll pick out a song or two that i think might be enlightening w/ your specific issue in mind, burn it to a cd and send it out for free. my pleasure. (but do give me some insight about why you dont like him so i can make a good choice for you)
for those who have an issue with copyright infringement...i'm not copying an entire recording and those who receive the cd can toss it out after listening - if they've changed their mind about coltrane they can, and will, no doubt go buy some on their own. if they still don't like him, no harm done in the copying and it will wind up in the trash anyway. |
Dave Matthews. Great band backing him up but I wouldn't miss him if he left. Reminds me of a chicken clucking.
Regards, |
Imin2u must be joking right? Let me rephrase myself, "I can't STAND OPERA!!" |
Pearl Jam - Eddie Vedder's singing reminds me of William Shatners acting |
Kinsekd - well said. Ben - I respect your right to your opinion, but definitely don't share your opinion in this case. First of all most of the posts go beyond being 'negative' in their content. Some add humor. Some swing into the positive. Some add information. While others add other personal touches. I think Kinsekd took care to phrase his/her query carefully to suggest the thread NOT go into negativity for the sake of negativity. The question posed is "Which artists do you just NOT GET?"....even the title softens what could be more like you may be suggesting (I think). Even if it were strictly about what folks don't like, does that make all the threads about what folks DO LIKE also "dumb" in your opinion?! How's it so different? If you start to get a sense for some folks having remained on this forum for a while, or even simply looking back at some older posts they've made when you strongly connect with what they are saying (or the opposite), you may get some great reccomendations/insight. That applies to both 'negative' opinions as well as 'positive'. I've gotten some great reccommendations for music from reading this forum.
Ben, one more question: You started a thread a while back titled "The Five most Overrated Movies Ever", the start of which you declare: "Ah such fun is being had on that other thread it's now time to take the axe to movies......." How is that thread so different from this one?!
On that note, as I said, I've never really clicked with Diana Krall, but the one CD I still own of hers is Live in Paris. It still doesn't really grab me for many of the reasons stated here (No Ben, I still don't get the emotion...and I do love Joni Mitchell's songwriting). But I'm not going to give up on her just yet. I'll hang onto the CD and perhaps come around to her as I have before to others. Then again, maybe I'll never get her. My buddy back east (a hard-core audiophile with whom I share some tastes and not others) tells me the DVD of that same live performance is just wonderful.
Marco |
Jcbach-my problem is that it's mostly a negative-fun or not- and well if you really just really don't like something well,I couldn't find anything anything less interesting-sure put together an interesting theory why you don't like something/some artist or find something overrated but to just state a list of artists like this is pointless imho.
And that is EXACTLY what this thread mostly is, a list of what people don't like-so what?
Where's the insight,the humour or indeed the fun?
It doesn't indicate wonderful differences to me just the fact that some people don't like some things..like wow.
Sorry for being crabby but it really is a dumb thread-kick me around some I think I deserve it.................... |
Ben_Campbell you have a right to voice your opinion about the thread and in fact you have a right to not participate in the thread at all if you think it's a waste, but I think one of the values of the thread is to make us think a little more about what we like, what we don't like and why. I for one have learned a great deal about music from my music students because they've introduced me to the likes of Tool, Linkin Park, Ashanti, etc. and I'm over 50.
It's actually fun reading this thread because it just re-confirms to me our wonderful differences in music. My passion as a kid in the 60's was classical instrumental, then rock. As I grew musically I learned to love jazz and then some of the country music. Lately I've been gravitating to some of the world music groups particularly from Ireland and Africa, and in the last six years I have been voracious in my appetite for vocal music thanks to a graduate professor in choral conducting who opened the ears of a woodwind player and band director.
Anyway, this threads been fun. I think I'll start a new one asking for your finest choral, classical vocal recordings.
As for Diana Krall Imin2u, I agreed with you until I heard her Live in Paris CD. Listen to the whole thing for passionate emotion, but her remake of Joni Mitchell's "A Case of You" is so packed with emotion that I can't believe it could'nt move almost anyone. As for her earlier stuff, maybe it's too over produced in the studio I don't know, but I do know if she comes to the New England area I'm going. |
If I may. This post was all about having a little FUN in a "the emperor has no clothes" sort of way. A friendly, healthy way to blow off a little steam on a late spring/summer Friday & Saturday night. It was never meant as any sort of philosophical debate.
I agreed with some posts, disagreed with others. Some of the most entertaining posts for me were the ones that dissed some of MY favorite artists and genres. Thanks to all who posted. :o) |
Imin2u-that's not what the thread asks for at all.
It doesn't say list stuff you don't like then fans should post why these artists/musical forms are valid-that might have been slightly more interesting, though I doubt even detailed validation of some of the artists listed above would help those "who don't get it" especially when you've seen what some folks have written...........scarey but not surprising. |
Imin2u- Viggen may have a hard time finding an opera carman, but he may enjoy carmen ;) Don't want him to get too confused if he is to try and find it :o) |
Here's the purpose Ben_Campbell: To help each other find something of value within what they don't like. Example: Viggen should listen to Orff's Carmen Burina or the opera Carman.
Me? I can't understand the Mapleshade label (although the sound is great), and Diana Krall (where's the emotion)? |
Hi Sean,
Hope the earlier post didn't come off as a rule 1 or 2 violator. Not really sure what vein of rock you've been hanging out in. Personally, I've never felt comfortable with labels like fusion, jazz or even rock. There's no denying that they have a certain utility about them though. Anyway, Inner Mounting Flame clobbered me first. The fidelity sucks, but the content makes it one of their best (might want to listen to this one in your car a couple of times through first), the same is true w/ Birds of Fire. The Devotion record w/ (caveman drummer) Buddy Miles delivers a fine narcotic rock fix. Also you might dig the McLaughlin/Santana Welcome disc. Another possibility could be to access this stuff via the Praxis/Buckethead route (Metatron or Mutatis Mutandis are both highly deluxe flame throwers). |
I don't know about artists but I never really got threads like this-what's the point?
I worship Dylan but the fact that some people either hate his voice,his hair or his songs really doesn't come as a big surprise.
There's not much I don't get but some stuff I loathe for a variety of reasons-anybody really care?
Nope didn't think so.
This is the worst thread I've seen on Audiogon for a while-just an opinion.
:-) |
Sean,The Inner Mounting Flame and Visions Of The Emerald Beyond are,I think,the two best Mahavishnu albums.Quality of recording is not exactly good,especially of the former.As usual,UK or Dutch pressings are much better;never heard Japanese.Birds Of Fire and The Lost Trident Sessions( CD only) also contain some great cuts.Frankly, I don't know anyone who could play electric guitar like John McLaughlin; he is unbelievable with acoustic as well-just listen to Friday Night In San-Francisco and Passion,Grace&Fire.Of his later work I like Que Alegria album the most.A Handful Of Beauty with Indian musicians is another masterpiece. |
Madonna - can someone please explain the 20 year star run of this modestly gifted superstar? Can hardly carry a tune, can't act at all, maybe ok-looking in a real hard edged sort of way... I'll give to her that she can write passable pop tunes about currently fashionable notions that emerge originally from other sources that she jumps on. I'm always floored when I hear the women, and even some of the straight men I work with: educated, professional, mature smart people - get all excited talking about her new CD & whether it's as "good" as such & such cd.... Hey, there are other contemporaneous women artists that I may like or not like or get: Bjork, Sinead, Enya, Janet Jackson, Celine, Sheryl Crow that at least I could understand their appeal on some level. But Madonna's appeal, especially on her superstar scale completely mystifies me. Come on, there HAVE to be some of her fans here that can argue for her just based on the numbers.
And I just plain hate Courtney Love and everything she represents. |
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"Big Hat" country
Ethnically confused clowns like Eminem
Artificial boy and girl bands ('Nstink and Density's Child - spelling errors intentional)
Single name chick singers
Nirvana. Kurt Cobain especially. I don't get the mythic, cultish following he attained. His entire career was what - about 5 minutes?) |
Rush...Getty Lees voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me
Dave Matthews band...saw him live once and thought he played some songs twice they all sound so similar. |
Inna & Duane: I'm more than willing to give Mahavishnu a "real" try. To be quite honest, i've never really sat down and listened to them and have only heard bits and pieces at various times. Those "bits & pieces" were so repulsive to me that they are forever etched in my mind.
As such, what would you suggest that i start off with as an intro to this band ? That is, knowing what you do about me and my previous comments ? Take it easy on me in terms of trying to "blow me away" with "Fusion*", etc... While i'm obviously a "rocker" at heart, you might also want to take that into consideration. I've got about a half dozen of their LP's here that i bought for my Brother as a gift, so i may already have what you suggest. I've just never been able to bring myself to listen to them. Sean
>
* When they named it "Fusion", didn't they mean "Confusion" ??? : ) |
Madonna. Horrible voice. Prince. Musical genuis? Bruce Springsteen. The boss of what? |
jcbach, I also chk the reviews on amazon but I find them more useful after listening to a few samples on mp3. I've filtered many nasty purchases at the music store by going this route. |
God I have to agree with most of you. Most of the music coming out today is not worth the download time anyway. Hardly any recording worth more than a song or two if that.
Reubent - Dave Mathews Band YES, YES, YES I cannot stand this guy, who the hell is buying this garbage. I had heard that even the band members could not understand why!
Key_metric Yawnni... oops, I mean Yanni. God I have been calling him that for years.
Stne418 Kenny G He has to be rated up there two. Drop some acid or something Kenny! Maybe you'll get a new idea!
Mscommerce Michael Bolton 100% with you here too. And yes the Titanic woman herself, eat something for Gods sake. She must weigh in at 80 lbs!
Add to my list the Counting Crows. Blah, Blah, Blah garage band music if that.
I like Jazz but not all even from the same artist or band, same with rock, etc. More into Gino Vanelli! SOme of the earlier and later stuff he did. George Benson, Bad Benson is happenin' too. Plus most of the standards but it takes some time to find what you like and too much crap to hear before you get there.
Oh yeah Elron John too, like a few songs but after that put a fork in him, he's done!
Anyone like ABBA??? Yeah right! I was joking, really!
Funny how smooth jazz plays Clapton, when did that happen? |
I can't tolerate any Rap, Hip Hop, most Country and Bruce Screamsteen. |
Limiting myself to those that seem to have gotten some degree of acceptance among critics and audiophiles, I'll nominate:
Creed
U2
Enya
and certainly second the nomination of Eminem. |
I've always struggled with much of Coltrane's later recordings, not his musicianship which is what DOES draw me to him but the endless stream of improvisation which at times seems so disjointed and uninvolving. I keep on trying though in the hopes of someday finally getting it.
There are many "audiophile approved" recordings which I find dreadfully boring, too many to name and life is too short to focus on such things . As with one of the posters above, I have really come to appreciate the artistry of Patricia Barber not to mention her musianship.
I think there is a tendency at times to separate the music from the musianship and creativity of an artist. As noted above, I feel Coltrane to be among the greatest musicians I've ever heard as a result, am still trying to get more into his music, which is much harder. Louis Armstrong is the single greatest jazz musician to me. For those who might not "get" him I suggest listening to his early hot five recordings, not audiophile to be sure but to get a sense of his inate ability at phrasing not to mention his unique tone. His voice may not appeal but ya gotta love his phrasing both vocally and with his horn. If you don't like the music that is another thing altogether. Listen to "West End Blues" for a great example. |
To answer your question, I never "got" Blur or Oasis. I don't really understand the whole electroclash thing i.e. Massive Attack. Most singer-songwriters drive me up a wall, with the exception of Elliot Smith and Jeff Tweedy.
I hope this is impersonal and civil, but I really challenge some "music lovers" to explore Hip-Hop beyond what is seen on MTV or mainstream radio. Most real hip-hop fans do not consider Nelly, Eminem, Master P or whatever to be hip-hop. By and large, hip-hop is a positive and creative genre with artists that are far more articulate than the average rock star. For starters, I would look into the Roots, Quasimoto, Blackalicious, Mos Def or Talib Kweli. I know the beats and rap vocal style aren't for everyone and thats fine, i'm just saying give it a chance.
Same thing with country and bluegrass! I'm not a fan of most contemporary cookie-cutter country but man, I can't imagine life without old Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, Patsy Cline, Hank Williams, Bill Monroe...even Porter and Dolly! Just my opinion. Happy Listening!
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Mahler
I freely admit that it's my fault I don't understand his music and yes,I know he had to put up with his music not being performed during some periods because he was Jewish.
I find his music self-rightous and long winded.
I can take or leave Ornette Coleman. |
Yeah, country music is really one very long song:"my wife is gone, my truck is broke, all cows died and that's about all".But there is certain consistency and calm in that.You just have to put your mind in the right gear, than it is managable. |
Country music, pretty much in it's entirety. It has to be WAY into the rock side of country-rock before I care for it at all.
I also can't stand the doctored-voice, synth-background of most of today's pop divas. I realize that it's not aimed at me, but it's the complete antithesis of what I listen to music for. I can listen to a widely diverse set of styles depending on the situation, and would choose to have music playing 12 hours a day around me if possible, but when this stuff comes on, say at a restaurant at lunch, it just grates on me. |
Alot of the stuff mentioned above is generic pedestrian and musically pretty dang predictable. Kinda boring or lame maybe, but not hard to "get" at all. The Mahavishnu Orch. at it's peak STOMPS!!! the vast majority of music (especially rock) in terms of skill, energy and imagination. An inability to appreciate their work would make it impossible to do a decent job of absorbing most stuff that's more challenging than Lawrence Welk or Bob Seeger.
Alot of the most rewarding experiences you can get as a listener don't hit you right away. Recordings that once seemed random and disjointed can often later be recognized as beautifully organised compositions. Listening to them gets to be as easy as eating good food or taking a walk.
That hasn't happened yet for me w/ alot of Derek Bailey records. |
any/all country period...... |
Patricia Barber - I can't get enough. I'm listening to her "Split" on vinyl right now. I think I own everything of hers.
Anyway, one jazz artist I just don't get is Jiimmy Giuffre. His album Free Fall is suppose to be much sought after, but I can't find the music approchable. It's like looking at a Jackson Pollock painting. I just don't get it!
As a vocalist Diane Shure makes me wince! Most male rappers are so angry about everything, but it seems the female rappers approach their art more musically. I agree with Kinsekd about Dylan, though he's a better poet than musician and composer.
But as Barber is singing on side two of Split - "Too Late Now." All our ears are different, which is why there's such a diverse library of music out there.
Oh yes, one last thing. I occassionally go to Amazon.com to read the reviews on CDs of artists or musical styles that I am unfamiliar with. I'm finding that 75% of the time when I purchase music going this route I end up disappointed - wasted my money. Except for Diane Shure's CD with Maynard Ferguson I didn't list any of these duds, but it sometimes makes me wonder who is writing all these customer reviews. Is it the ten members of the ensemble and their parents, aunts, and uncles? |
Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart. I've heard isolated cuts that were incredibly musical, but never was able to connect with the contexts these artists created. |
