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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear Volleyguy: +++++ " I think the results are similiar as Tempoelectric. " +++++

Not exactly because the Tempo people speaks on Sonicaps on Electronics and the person on the link I posted rated on speaker croosover. Two very different applications with different " needs ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear Volleyguy: +++++ " I did some measurements for some ..." +++++

the size is not the critical subject on quality performance and here you can't compare not only because its designs are totally different but ( for example ) the Mundorf are rated at 1200VDC against 200VDC on Sonicaps, if the Sonicaps were designed on 1200VDC its size will be bigger but like I say it is not important.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
dgarretson
2,394 posts
 
There are a few credible builders who have observed that when all things are equal(same cap type and capacitance value)a large/higher-voltage version sounded better than a small/low-voltage version. However, when comparing different types of caps, size would seem to be of little importance.
undertow
1,032 posts
 
Volleyguy
I am going to tell you this as I spoke once to the designer of sonicaps.. He literally states that the first 50 hours on a sonicap is okay, but at 50 hours is MUCH MUCH WORSE!!! Almost unlistenable in some applications. Then goes on to say they will be on the upswing again and probably start to get where they need be at 250 hours...
That being said I have had some with 300 plus on them, they are not a bad cap at all.. Not perfect but not bad, and yes were rather flat at times without really good dynamic contrasts... But I am not defending this, Just funny as about 2 years ago I was told this from the horses mouth so to speak..The designers exact statements were at 50 hours they turn for the worst unlike most caps. Why? How? Who knows... I can say the do get a bit sweeter and more separated over time.. Again we are talking about an average of 10 to 15 bucks a cap so don't expect the fullest mundorf experience..

I can say the sonicaps are better than any of this (Kimbercrap) or (Auricrap) caps that use to be about 3 bucks a capacitor and in the last 4 years gone up to 16 bucks a cap due to some popular manufacturers using them! They really suck, and maybe some applications are quite good, but I have not had that experience.

Oh and again burning in any of these caps in speakers will never really approach the level they get with using them in powered electronics from what I have found.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
JohnK I do think Steen thinks a speaker should be designed as a whole as well. I do think by his writing's that he feels most speaker manufacture's are "under" spending on caps and over spending on finish so that it "looks" better. Steen is clearly on the audiophile side and likely could care less what the speaker looks like. (I also know most manufactures af course care about looks-sales)

Johnk my results of course are based on a fairly expensive speaker. The internals of a lascala and Khorn are of course the same and the Khorn from the era was 4k (in 1980 dollars) So I feel (and can hear) using a $7 cap (likely $2 in 1980 dollars) is crazy on the cheap side one a 4k speaker! Now I do agree maybe the second Duelund sounds better but it was not a shocking difference the first was, so maybe I am reaching the point of putting more in is dimishing return and money could be better spent elsewhere. But the first Duelund in the tweeter was a bigger jump than from my pre-amp that was 1.5k to 4k. (same company) I had to do that one 6 or 7x before I could hear exactly what the difference was. The Duelund was pick my jaw up from the floor in 15 seconds. (and one Duelund was only $130x 2 for each speaker)

JohnK I do agree with you just maybe at a different point as to what is crazy. Would Duelund's 4k caps each be worth it??? No way not to me! I could improve a lot of stuff a long ways before I would ever spend that kind of money. (even if I had it)

I think why Stormen and I feel the improvement in the crossover may be better than any other area is because it might be the weakest area. Let's say someone has a 5k source 5k pre-amp 5k amp then it all runs through a $7 cap! To me that is crazy as ALL the sound goes through those devices! They are then the weak link. The trick is finding where that balance point is? I found "shocking" improvements all the way to 1 Duelund/Supreme after that it was like the pre-amp. It would take me a few listens to tell if it is better and how much.
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