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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Stormen you are upsetting me. That quote of the CAST being quite a bit better than VSF? They made a mistake on my order and it would have taken 6-8 weeks to get CAST midrange caps. So I said just ship me the VSF's! I have two CAST tweeter caps (and two VSF tweeter caps previous order) and I am going to compare against each other. Now when you say the CAST is quite a bit better is that in the midrange as well??? I can see in the tweeter caps but even in the midrange? This is the question people have thought me nuts already and way past the point of diminishing returns. Then you go and say the CAST is THAT much better.

The order has been sent to me and I expect it tomorrow or the next day at the latest. I will likely never know what a midrange CAST cap sounds like. Now that the price has shot up. That is something I am hearing very little of that makes me wonder?? The CAST prices were once 50% more than VSF and now are 100% more. Which is why I ordered CAST in the first place based on old prices. Is it still worth the $ for CAST based on new prices?

Undertow my understanding of the CAST was not just about voltage but even lower resonance due to the high pressure construction. (lower resonance I just could not imagine and had to hear) It was the CAST that went up the most in price, much more than the VSF which is why I ordered (but only got some) CAST caps as they are now out of my range.

Undertow I am Ok if the VSF goes toward warm and open as I have horn speakers.

Stormen it sounds like Duelund says the CAST is basically a oil cap? Like the vintage ones I have?? (but of course with a massive reduction in resonance) Then maybe I do not understand the construction differences. The CAST as I thought them were the same as VSF except less resonance.

This is what confused me on the original order. The VSF sound like I did not know digital even could! So are they the ideal match for me even if they are less costly? Spending more money does not always mean better even for us audio nuts on the lunatic fringe!

Stormen on the breakin?? I do find the VSF to be sounding better today then when I got them but there was never any not wonderful sounding part of the break in except maybe first few minutes.

I do know Tony Gee has the CAST in for testing and it will be interesting if he ranks them a 14 or second to the VSF for whatever reason?
halcro's avatar
halcro
2,289 posts
 
My VSF caps instantly sounded pure, tranparent and very musical. They did not appear to 'break-in' very much after the first few days so I'm surprised by Storman's comments?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Halcro mine did as well but (I think) sound even better now, again not much and nothing like the instant improvement they made. It sounds like the CAST may be a different beast.

Duelund does say the same thing as Stormen though about the CAST anyway.

Has anyone even heard of someone who did not like the VSF??? or liked another cap better? I have not heard of it.

Like I have said I think Steen will go down in Audio history.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I know this is going to be hard to believe after all this time but the caps are here and the midrange cap is hooked up.

You guys ever notice the smell? They have this all natural smell.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Just the first few hours on the mid range VSF Duelund with the well broken in VSF's om the tweeters.

Trying to get a handle on this.
This is not the same change as the tweeter caps. The first time I heard them (mid cap Duelund) my daughter was down here singing more than ever!

This is not the slam dunk that the tweeter caps were for two reasons.

The best cap I have here for the mid range was the original oil filled foil cap. It was miles better than the Sonicap and the Mundorf Supreme. The Sonicap I have sold long ago. The Mundorf sat here and I MUCH preferred the oil filled foil cap. Where in the tweeter cap all caps are much better than the originals.

I am going to have to go back and forth with the vintage and the Duelund VSF. Less resonance with the Duelund which I knew was in the vintage but it does sound harder???

The Duelund is not like the feeling I got with the Mundorf of falling in the ditch going what happened? But it is not all good either. As shocking as it sounds I could pull out the Duelund and put back in the vintage mid range cap?

The Duelund and vintage sound much more alike then any of the plastic caps.

Right now it is wayyyy closer than I ever would have guessed and so far it is still

1. Vintage for mid range.
2. Duelund VSF for mid range. (sounds rougher than the liquid filled vintage??? Shocked and not sure what is going on)

Then a long way down to
3. Mundorf Supreme (with the Russian PIO by pass)
4. Mundorf Supreme
5. Sonicaps

Tomorrow I will try the CAST with the vintage in the mid range. Also I am going to try the SS gear and analog (LP12) front end.

Somewhat concerned as every other cap I have tried the initial impression was similiar even after many hours and different gear combos. That will mean I will have spent a ton of money on little or no improvment. Something none of us ever wants.
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