Shipper is responsible for insurance:Discussion

I'm a bit confused by Dan's opinion, but it seems to rub me the wrong way. Whether or not the insurance companies recognize the item as the seller's property at the time of loss bears no impact on the moral discussion in my view. Insurance companies and most lawyers (or black-letter law itself) are two steps below snail dung on the scale of morals so I sure wouldn't consider it a noble standard to be held too. Nor would I consider the other immoral example of someone doing a bait-and-switch and blaiming it on a shipper. What the fu*& do dishonest practices have to do with the question at hand?! People get away with robbery and murder too, so does that make it something to strive for? If you purchase an Audio Aero from a dealer, and it arrives damaged, factory packing or not, you would fully expect the dealer to handle the claim 100% and make good on the purchase immediately with a replacement unit. Any dealer who didn't would not be one I'd deal with. The same would hold true with an individual. I own my own business and have for over twenty years now. If I use a third party vendor to complete a task involved with a job, and THEY screw-up guess who's responsible to my client. That's right, it's still ME. I chose to do business with that vendor and if I didn't make good on their mistake to my client I would not be in business very long. If you are agreeing to sell an item through the means of shipping it a distance using a third-party, I believe it should be the sellers burden to deliver the goods exactly as described. The buyer has every right to expect the item to arrive as described, and should not be burdened if it does not. I agree with the observation about factory packing being one good means towards this end, but it does not guarantee safe arrival by any means, especially given the state of ground shipping these days (reminds me of that Samsnite ad with the apes throwing around the luggage in the cage). Double boxing is best with plenty of packing. Even then damage can still occur. I don't care if the seller packs the item in a steel crate with down feathers, if the item does not arrive to the buyer as it was described (within reason) it is the sellers responsibility to make good on the full price of purchase. Period, end of story. I sell and pack and ship my items with that kind of integrity, and fully expect the same from anyone selling something to me through a shipper. I have been on the bad end of damage more than once both as a buyer and a seller and have always conducted my business that way.

Marco

I used to work for a large trucking company, and I can tell you, things get damaged in transit. This is why buyers want insurance and the shipper should also want insurance on any item they ship. Our company had it's own insurance, or I should say, it was self insured, which certainly is under strict guidelines and the customer pays for it.

Dan is correct, that once an item is paid for, the item belongs to the purchaser. However, improper packaging is a fault of the shipper. Abuse to a package in transit, is the fault of the shipping company. This is where the problem lies. Who caused the problem? When it comes to a company parting with "Insured value" monies, blame is going to be placed on someone and they will end up paying for it, either directly, or through their insurance.

Elizabeth is exactly correct, the seller is responsible for taking care of the mess, if something goes wrong and the item gets damaged. This seems backwards, since the buyer is actually paying for the shipping, just look at any manifest (The buyer is actually the owner) but the carrier, like UPS, FedEx and USPS, require the shipper to make the claim and the payment for the insured item, will go to the shipper. It may be wrong and it is a hassle to the seller/shipper, but that is the way it is.

Unfortunately, I have had an experience with this, through FedEx and a pair of speakers that arrived damaged. The seller wasn't going to do anything and it took many calls and emails to get him off his behind to take care of it, but I was told by FedEx, the shipper is the one who will need to follow up, and he was going to receive any payment, if they decided the speakers were packaged properly. This is something that Dan touches on, but I feel that the seller is ultimately responsible for the packaging. It is an item that no longer belongs to him and it is in his/her charge. He didn't pack right, but did the right thing and return my money. He ended up eating the speakers, but that wasn’t my fault or FedEx.

I have been on the other side, with USPS and an expensive golf club. The postal worker broke a $500.00 driver into 4 pieces! The buyer told me of the condition imediately, since he was going on vacation with his new club, and I refunded his money. It took 4+ weeks to get the Post Office to give me the money, and then they wanted to give me less than it was insured for. That is a whole other kind of mess.... but that is for the insurance types to discuss.

My thinking is, the seller is responsible for the packaging and it is part of the "risk" that the seller incurs by selling and accepting payment for an item and then arranging shipping. It is a hassle if something goes wrong, agreed, but the shippers are going to hold the seller responsible for the claims and the packaging.

If a seller is saying, "I'm not going to be responsible for any shipping problems", or something to that effect, stay away. They are going to be a real problem for you, and this will make a bad situation even worse. No one wants damage to occur, but lets face it, we all live in the real world, and the shipping companies have it set up that the seller/shipper is the responsible party for the claims.

Dan makes a good point, in discussing the packaging with the seller. I agree; if it is an expensive or heavy item, pay for the proper packaging. But all sellers out there, be aware of the responsibility that the shipper is dropping on you, when you ship an item, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLAIMS. It may not be a fair world, but I’m sure you parents already told you that. There is risk in both buying and shipping.

Dan has the buyer / seller / insurer mixed up in his wording on some places. I agree that it is lacking in clarity but if one reads through the post and substitute's what they think should go there, you'll get the main points that he's trying to make.

As far as me having "luck" on a local basis, it has nothing to do with "luck" or being "local". I've had to muscle my way through all of my claims except for one and all of them have dealt with UPS' Texas location that handles claims. Sean
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jaxz -

Relax. The header of this post is "DISCUSSION" which is just what I am doing, discussing, using my views and opinions. The insurance part is JUST A COMMENT, which I think is of value IN GENERAL.

I am not saying the seller is out scott-free once shipped.
Obviously the buyer and seller have to work together to resolve the situation accordingly. I simply disagree with above comments that the buyer should have the 'right' to decide if he or she wants to pursue insurance or receive a complete refund from the buyer. I feel BOTH parties need to work it out, and make the decision TOGETHER. I am not opposed to providing refunds to make the new owner whole, just don't feel it is their decision exclusively!

Hope this makes sense.....

Dan

SEAN!

Thanks for the clarity! Indeed I have the wrong buyer/seller mixed up, and it is pretty obvious once I read it again!

That is what happens when you only sleep 2 hours because you are so excited to get up and read AGON posts!! Sleep Dan, sleep!

Thanks, and sorry for the confusion!!