Legacy 20/20 and Tubes

I have owned the AR-9 wich sean has, I know that his are highly moddified and I loved the AR-9 but the focus wich my father owns and has had for maybe 4 years now trounces the AR-9 in every way, the ribbon tweeters are sweet and detailed, the bass attack is fast and tight and the mids are exceptional to say the least, I never have listened to a test but I have listened to speakers of all makes models and ranges, can you get better? ofcourse...but at the 20/20 price point they are exceptional speakers and the cabinets are excellent, tests dont tell the whole story, look at any test of a tube amp and most leave you wondering how they can sound good.....but as said before nobody has ever tapped their toe to a test, but many have to the 20/20's strong,detailed, and controlled sound.
P.S. I thought this was about the music?

Chad: You're comparing a 25 year old speaker with normal age based decay in stock form to a new production model that has decades worth of technoligical improvements in raw parts and retails for appr five times the price. Hmmmm...

As far as bass attack goes, you're not going to get "faster" or "tighter" than a Q of .5 at resonance, which the AR offers in stock form. This is why Dunlavy chose the same basic electrical characteristics. Comparing that type of performance to ANY vented design in terms of transient response is strictly ridiculous from a technical vantage point. Vents are to transient response as turtles are to speed i.e. not normally mentioned in the same breath. Obviously, some vented designs are implimented better than others and that's where the noticeable differences come into play. Beyond that technical vantage point, the sound that one likes boils down to a matter of personal preference.

As a side note, most of Dudleston's early advertising literature was based on data that AR had published in their literature years earlier. One can even see the similarities in the charts / lay-outs used when comparing said literature side by side. This isn't to say that i consider the AR-9 to be the ultimate speaker ( NOT by a longshot ), but that i do consider it to be capable of far more neutral and natural performance than any of the Legacy's that i've ever heard. This is obviously in an apples to apples comparison, not in a "25 year old" vs "new" type of shoot-out. Due to the decay that naturally takes place in the electro-mechanical aspects of a speaker over time, such a comparision is completely unfair and unrealistic. Sean
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PS... The highly modified 9's are running as the mains in my HT system. After modifying my Father's Legacy's to perform closer to the design attributes of the AR's, he finally understood how grossly distorted and non-linear the Legacy's really were. Prior to that, he thought that the Legacy's were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Not only did he believe all of the reviews of these speakers that were based on subjective opinions, most of it probably had to do with the fact that his point of reference had never matured past his previous Bose 901's at that point in time. Yes, he had many years of being an "audiophile" and thousands upon thousands of dollars invested in previous systems, but his listening skills obviously weren't up to the task prior to that point in time. Bare in mind that this is my Father, whom i love and respect, that i'm talking about, not some sluggard off the street that i don't know.

PPS... Study the design of the AR-9LST and then look at the design of the Legacy 1's. You'll find SOOOO many similarities that it's not funny. Both utilize a four way, five driver design, a larger front firing woofer ( 12" AR vs 10" Legacy ) with a smaller down-firing woofer ( 10" AR vs 8" Legacy ), a large cone mid-woofer ( 8" AR vs 6" Legacy ), high frequency drivers that are vertically aligned, passively bi-ampable, etc... Then again, most designers try to emulate designs that they find to be worth copying. Having said that, how many copies actually supercede the performance of the originals without the aid of newer technology??? Not too many that i'm aware of. In this case, not even the newer technology could duplicate the years of research and knowledge applied to the earlier design.

Legacy has always touted "surface area", but as can be seen, even the older and far more refined AR designs had them beat years earlier. Given that the original AR-9 previous to the smaller and cheaper 9LSi used two 12's and an 8" mid-woofer, it was even further ahead of Legacy's original "top of the line" model.

Legacy is / was marketing hype and Dudleston has laughed his way to the bank and early retirement. Believe what you want, but the measurements and facts don't lie. They are poorly designed speakers that introduce more of their own traits to the signal than many other less "glamorous" products. This is obviously just my opinion and is based on both first hand listening experience and repeated test measurements as submitted by industry professionals. You might not agree with my personal listening observations, but the test results verify that other speakers are capable of far superior performance under identical conditions.

I just think they sound really good, not the best...but really good

I agree with Chadnliz as well as other happy owners.

Frankly I find it peculiar as well as disappointing that Sean has spent so much time and effort bashing Legacy. It is a shame that we are not able to have any sort of discussion on Legacy without having to deal with constant long ranting posts from Sean, like the one above, whether they have anything to do with the original post or not.

Sean, we ALL know how you feel, and you are entitled to your opinion. Many of us would like to discuss what WE LIKE for a little while please without having the overly long negative posts that you have written so many times on this one company. Again, we all know how you feel. Your thoughts are already well documented over and over.

BTW-adding "enjoy what you like" after such a high volume of negative written words is a poor cop-out disclaimer.