More on the VR4seIII

Belles 150A HR...is this the 150A Hot Rod amp? The Belles should
provide plenty of pure clean power to drive the VR4s, although the 150A
Reference is the better amp. What tubes are you using in the Belles pre?

Honestly, I'd look at your speaker placement first. This can have the
most profound impact on sound. Describe your room size, and
placement of the speakers...distance from rear and side walls...distance
to listening chair...distance between speakers.

Yes I mentioned that they were new and should be about broken in now as Ive had them for about 5 months. Dont get me wrong, I love these babies. But Im not getting the liquid image float I want. I beleive it to be the electronics which is why the ?. what is everyone else useing to get that.Its a pretty large room. Maybe 25x35 or so and I have moved the speakers around forward backwards, in out, you know. Im thinking of going with a tube amp on top and the Belles hot rod or Bel Canto on the bottom. It sounds like the tube amp you have is able to drive the entire speaker. Am I right?

I was wondering why you changed from the big Bryston, to the tube amp. Because I was considering a Bryston for driveing the bottom half>

Sorry, I did re-read your post about the age of the speakers, then I revised my post and deleted the question.

My tube amp is able to easily drive the VR4 Gen III HSE speakers with lots of room to spare on the volume pot. Although your room is almost twice as big as mine. If you're looking to fill your room with heavy metal music at "live" volume, then you may require some more power. I don't know. I still maintain that your imaging issues are a product of speaker placement and not amplification quantity or quality.

Based on your room size, it would seem like about 6 feet from the back wall would be a good starting point. Do your speakers and listening chair form an equilateral triangle? This is key in my experience. How about toe-in? Adjustments of just half an inch make a significant impact. Start by pointing the speakers directly at the listening chair and slowly rotate them out a few degrees. You should find a point at which the image locks in and floats just as you describe. Sorry to hit on the placement issue so hard, but I don't believe your amplification is the problem. Sure, a better and more powerful amp will help the dynamics, but it won't help imaging in my opinion. Certainly to the degree you are describing. Member "Jtinn" sells Von Schweikert and has helped me in the past with set-up issues. He'd be a good resource. You can do a member search and send him an e-mail.

Good luck. Even though it's hard to resist, try to lock in your speaker and listening positions before you start dropping coin on new electronics.

Just a note on power. The VR4 Gen III speakers are rated 89db/1 watt/1 meter. They produce 89db measured at 1 meter from the speakers with just 1 watt of power. Each doubling of power results in 3 db of volume gain, e.g. 2 watts produces 92 db. My room is loud at 96db...only about 6 watts of power. Keep in mind that I used to play drums in hard rock bands, and my definition of loud is based on that real world experience. Only 64 watts produces an ear splitting 107db. So, you see what I mean about power not necessarily being a problem for you. At 150watts, the Belles 150A should provide plenty of what you need.