2. amps-preamps
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HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
128x128noble100
guidocorona
4,114 posts
 
Kuribo, Merrill does not assert that Taranis sports a pair of NC1200 modules. I interpret the above that "new modules based on the NC1200 Ncore technology" means that Taranis contains a power conversion module or modules derived -- by trickle down -- from NC1200 technology for the particular stereo application and price point.

G.
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 

I recall Hifial, whose judgement I respect and believe owns or has listened to both in his system, state that the Hypex Nc400 module, while sounding very good, is not in the same league as the Nc1200 module.
I would think Hypex is aware of this and, being the amp designers of both, knows why;perhaps some proprietary technology utilized in the nc1200 that's not used in the nc400.
From my perspective, they are now offering a new module to OEMs that incorporates this superior technology in a less expensive and somewhat lower power form. This may be an effort to capture back some of the sales lost to Abletec and Pascal based amps.
As Hifial put it: to put the less expensive module/amps 'in the same league' performance and sound wise as the ncore 1200 modules.
This is all pure speculation on my part and just food for thought.

Tim
kuribo
80 posts
 
Bruno, the designer, has said repeatedly that the only difference between the nc400 and the nc1200 is that the nc400 has a discrete input stage that he custom designed while the nc1200 has an ic input that is rather plain because it was thought that many OEM's would want to put their own input stage in the amp.

If you look at the specs, if anything, the nc400 has superior measured performance.

Several have said they preferred the nc1200. Bruno and others at Hypex have gone on record repeatedly saying there isn't any real difference in sound between the two. "Preferred" doesn't mean "better" in an objective way.

As for the modules in the new Merrill amp, saying "They are not the NC400 modules but new modules based on the NC1200 Ncore technology" is a bit disingenuous- the nc400 and nc1200 technology is one in the same. As I said above, NAD is now using a module based on the nc400 in their new amp, so my earlier comment that the new Merrill amp does not use the nc1200 module as indicated by the $2500 price, and more than likely is using a nc400-like module, as is NAD, would seem to be accurate...
hifial's avatar
hifial
332 posts
 
Noble100, Thank you for your respect in my judgment.

I own the Veritas and heard the NC400 not only in my system but several others as well. As very good as the NC400 is there is NO CONTEST against the Veritas. Any other NC1200 I can only speculate would be the same.

I also know I highly respected OEM that modified an NC400 to wring every last bit of performance out of it and put it up against the Veritas in his system and the Veritas still won handily.

Hey for a DIY at its price point the NC400 is one of the best buys out there, as long as it is assembled properly. The cherry on top is that if one wants to get better performance from it all they have to do is spend a small amount of additional money and use better parts and anti-vibration footers. I know, as I heard the difference before and after, as did several other Audiophile friends.

But now that Hypex is bring the NC1200 tech to a lower price point that is great for Audiophiles. There are a lot of people that either can not or do not want to buy a DIY even if someone else did it for them.

For the price that Merrill is asking, $2,500, even DIY selfers would be better off buying the Taranis if it sounds as good as I expect. I for one will look to give them a listen. Soon, I hope.

hifial's avatar
hifial
332 posts
 
Kuribo, what is your problem. You are entitled to believe what you want but for the most part your are not only wrong but you have no first hand knowledge for some of your statements of "facts".

Yes, your first paragraph is mostly on the mark but there are other differences. None of which I will get into now or later.

If we only and always went by specs then why bother to listen to any equipment. We all should just buy on specs. Then in that case ALL the equipment from Japan from the late 70s for the next several decades should be the BEST sounding equipment EVER made. Their specs are off the chart and better all equipment today. But they would sound poor to anything today of any quality.

Sorry but I and many others do not prefer the sound of the NC1200 over the NC400. It is BETTER then the NC400. Sometimes something is BETTER then what it is being compared vs preferred. There is a BETTER reproduction of sound from top to bottom and in all aspects with the NC1200.

With all due respect to Bruno, and I think very highly of him, B***S**T. Anyone with a good set of ears and system can EASILY hear the difference. Why he has said that I can not fathom.

As for your last paragraph this where you make statements like they are facts but are based on no first hand knowledge. We all could suppose whatever we want. Dos not make it factual. That whole thing is just a guess.

Merrill is one of the rare ones in the industry. Nothing about him is disingenuous. And one of the nicest and helpful.
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