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HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
noble100
guidocorona
4,114 posts
 
Sebollo, which Merrill and NAD amps are you referring to in the following... "Hypex is playing catch up, but starting to offer a customized version
of Ncore to the OEMs which supposedly will have better dynamics and power capabilities. Merril and NAD will be the first adopters of these customizations."

Sebollo and Kuribo.... We should also consider that we consumers do not listen to a bare module, but to complete amps. The raw performance of the module is certainly a factor in the performance of the amp, but is not the only factor... With designs of growing complexity, the raw performance of a particular module becomes more and more a partial issue.

G.
kuribo
80 posts
 
You might want to review this very thread wherein both an Anaview employee and Dennis Deacon are quoted as saying that their is no material difference in sound between the old and new Anaview....

Hypex has said repeatedly that there is no material difference in sound between the nc1200 and the nc400. Nc400 actually has better specs. There has been no conclusive testing or rigorous comparison done to show the nc1200 is superior in some way, only anecdotal reports, mostly from new owners, that they prefer the sound to the nc400. No doubt it does sound different. It is a common misconception to think that different is better in an objective sense.

No doubt you can find people who prefer one to another. As I said, people have differing perceptions and taste.

If you look through enough forums, you will find people who prefer ncore to anaview to pascal, and those that prefer the anaview, and those that think they all sound like mud. Frankly, I don't base my opinions of audio gear or make judgments based on the opinions of people on online forums.

Hypex has started to offer a cheaper, less powerful oem ncore because they recognize they have a hole in their product line. They are in business and it is a smart move.

Proven that there are better performing modules for less money than Hypex? Hardly, but then again, clearly your standards of proof are a lot lower than mine...

I do agree with Guido in that the implementation plays a part in the final performance. Merrill is adding their own front end now, rather than using the stock input section. That will surely change the sound. Better or not, that is subjective. No doubt some will like it. Whether it is an actual improvement in the amp's performance will await more rigorous analysis.
sebollo001
39 posts
 
Guido,

You quoted only a part of my comment. I was talking about the price/performance offerings from each manufacturer. Up to very recently, Hypex only had the UcD modules for "mid Tier" OEM designs.
But several brands from the states as well as overseas (Jeff Rowland, D-Sonic, TEAC, Matt Kraemer, Amphion) were choosing Pascal and Anaview over Hypex UcD.
Now, Hypex decided to be more competitive in that segment, offering OEMs customizations of their Ncore modules at a more competitive price than their NC1200 flagship.
I will go further than your last statement, saying we don't listen to amps, we listen the complete chain, from record to the listening room!
But I still consider useful to somehow break the chain into pieces, for comparison and analysis, obviously paying much attention to the context where the comparisons are made.
We are speaking in relative terms here. I can say that my amplifier with Anaview modules sounds fantastic when using a Benchmark DAC2 as pre amplifier (low output impedance), and B&W 805, 802, or Dynaudio Confidence C2 speakers.
I suspect it would not sound so good if I connect a high output impedance tube preamplifier. In that case, an input buffer may be necessary. Some designers already build it with the amp, like W4S.
Sebastian
guidocorona
4,114 posts
 
Hi Sebastian, you are correct. The NCore-type modules inside the Merrill Taranis and the NAD M22 stereo amps are not absolute performance enhancements over the NC1200 mono part. Rather, they were designed as smaller and lower cost trickle-down compoenents to enhance the price-performance ratio of higher entry level stereo amplifiers above what is possible using UCD in the same context. It is also unclear if NAD and Merrill are using the same parts for their respective stereo amps.
I am not qualified to comment about most manufacturers you cited. However, Rowland has not made an overall selection of Pascal over Hypex. The pragmatic philosophy of Rowland is to engineer topologies and select component parts to best fit the requirements of particular projects, or families of projects, at design time.

Hence, the $65K M925 monos and the $32K bridgeable M825 sport Hypex NCore NC1200 parts. Pascal MPro2 is inside the $9.5K Continuum S2 integrated; the M525 bridgeable has Pascal SPRO2; and the entry level M125 bridgeable contains an ICEpower module – with amazing results I have been told. And, as usual, the unfathomable future remains in the stars.
sebollo001
39 posts
 
Guido,

As Jeff Rowland, there are a couple of other manufacturers who have stated they are not tied to any topology and any power module brand. Amphion is one of them, D-sonic (only class D) and Matt Kraemer (only class D) are others.
Good times for us consumers, I suppose.
It seems that all the newest Class D power modules have in common a very advanced control loop (feedback error correction) and a very studied component layout to minimize EMI/RFI.
Call them AMS, Ncore, UcD, UMAC, etc, all technologies employ a high order control loop that includes the speaker load into the feedback error control to keep THD as low as possible. As a consequence of the high unmount of feedback required to accomplish this, the output resistance of the modules is extremely low (and dumping factor high).
For some time I've been wondering if this approach could be applied to other topologies. Classic class A / AB designers don't seem to treat feedback as a valuable resource for bettering amplifiers THD performance.
However, Benchmark Media is now selling a new amplifier called AHB2 that employs several THX patents, some of which are about feedback and error control. As the newest class D power modules, this amplifier has extremely low THD and high dynamic range, it even beats the best class D specs currently available.
It also uses a switching power supply, which IMO is another sign of using "non traditional" design resources to enhance the performance of the classic topologies.
So what do you think? Now that Class D has advanced to a level that can compete spec wise with all other topologies, will classic class A/AB manufacturers "enhance" their designs using all modern and non traditional technologies to bring them to the next performance level?
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