Dunlavy for HT speakers

I owned Dunlavy SC-III's for five years and my best hi-fi friend ran the huge SC-V's for three years, both of which are quite similar to the SC-IV/A's. The SC-IV/A's were (and remain) very competitive at their price point, but they were designed primarily for high-end two-channel music systems and not home theater where imaging is not important and bombastic dynamics are. SC-IV/A's will go pretty loud and quite low in the bass, but they are a time-coherent design that uses first-order crossovers in order to improve imaging and accuracy, and as such, are fundamentally ill-suited to home theater where bombastic dynamics can overstress drivers, especially drivers that are operating out of their passband in first-order designs like Dunlavy. Dunlavy tweeters are especially vulnerable to overdriving. Also as a result of being built for time coherence, the sweet spot with Dunlavy's is very small, meaning that people sitting around a room watching home theater are not hearing what the speaker can do.

You want something with fourth-order crossovers for home theater, like Revels Salons. I owned Salons and they can go incredibly loud if you have enough clean power. My dealer, who is very experienced and has carried a lot of different speaker brands over the years, set up a pair of Salons in a home theater installation in New Jersey that were powered by the big 1,200 watt/channel McIntosh monoblocks -- he said he has never heard a louder pair of speakers. Salons also have tons of really deep bass, so there is no need for a subwoofer unless you are running them in a gymnasium, and excellent off-axis dispersion (i.e., huge sweet spot), meaning that everyone in the room will hear what they can do.

I also note that I have another friend who ran the SC-I's. They are superb monitor speakers for the money and can sound great in two-channel systems if coupled with a really fast subwoofer, but again, they have a tiny sweetspot, no bass below 80 Hz. because they are sealed-box, and can't handle a lot of power -- they were designed for high-end two-channel music listening. While Dunlavy did sell an "A/V" shielded version for use in home theater, it was merely a nod to market realities, as there are 97 home theater speakers sold for every 3 two-channel speakers and speaker designers who ignore the home theater market perish. Dunlavy in fact went out of business because his designs were serious attempts at building extremely good two-channel speakers, i.e., time-coherence, which requires first-order crossovers and sealed-box woofer loading, the latter requiring gigantic, room-unfriendly boxes. Ever stand next to an SC-V, or God forbid, an SC-VI? They are ridiculous, but if you're listening in the sweet spot, they do a very credible job of simulating the sound of live, unamplified music.

If you have a high-end two-channel system featuring a good turntable, Dunlavy's are a very good option if you do not want to spend a ton of money. If you are trying to shake the foundation with stomping dinosaurs, however, there are more appropriate options.

I've never heard a pair of Snells, nor do I know anything about the specific models you have, so this is more of a comment on the Dunlavy's than a comparison between the two.

Raquel makes some very good points, though there are lots of reasons I want good sound in a HT application beyond the bombastic effects. Clarity of dialogue, reproduction of the soundtrack, spatial effects - there are many aspects of sound in a HT application that are important to me.

That said, I don't think I'd go for Dunlavy's for their HT suitability. They are very nice speakers, and very affordable used. I think there are many speakers that would work better for HT, and the Dunlavys are HUGE. I wouldn't want to have them in my room, or have to move them at some point, if they're just for HT.

If the system is used for both HT and music, then I might go for them, depending on the ratio. I've heard the SC-IV/a's and I have owned a pair of the Alethas. They are wonderful on music, and I could listen to either for a long time. They would suffice just fine for HT, but they would be great for music.

As Raquel said, if you're looking for the best choice for great, dedicated HT, there are more appropriate options.

This is a combo system, both 2-channel and HT. Both are important. I actually listen to music louder than movies, but more often both are at moderate volume. Both of your comments are helpful, thanks. I'm wondering how bit a step up the Dunlavys would be for stereo listening over the C/Vs. Are there better options in that same price range that would do well for both applications?

While I appreciate the opinions of the others, I would respectfully disagree that Dunlavy loudspeakers are not suitable for home theater. I own Dunlavy Alethas, an SM-I center channel, 2 SCI/AV surrounds, and a Velodyne sub for LFE content on movies, so you're free to consider me somewhat biased.

I will concede the fact that Dunlavy's do have a narrower sweet spot than speakers that are specifically designed for wider dispersion, such as those meeting the THX requirements for SPL dispersion. And that may very well be a limitation in very small home theaters with multiple seats in spread-out locations.

However, the dynamics of all Dunlavy speakers are extraordinary. To the best of my knowledge, speakers don't know that they are playing the soundtrack from a movie or a recording of an orchestra. With the exception of the artificially generated LFE channel in movie soundtracks, the transient response required to accurately reproduce live music, is as taxing to a loudspeaker as are movie soundtracks. The naysayers should try sticking their head next to a crash cymbal or the horn of a trumpet sometime.

First order crossovers do indeed require drivers to operate over a wider frequency range, than a higher order filter. The 6 db/octave roll-off enables drivers targeted at different frequencies, such as tweeters/mid-range/woofers, to more evenly blend with and maintain absolute phase with one another. This is a design tenant of many manufacturers including John Dunlavy, Richard Vandersteen and others. However, the transient response of a driver is a function of the driver itself, not the crossover. So a driver's transient response at a given frequency is the same regardless of whether or not it's connected to a 6 db/octave first order filter or a 24 db/octave fourth order filter or no filter at all.

Lastly, I would also take issue with the opinion, presented as fact, as to why Dunlavy went out of business. The statement "Dunlavy in fact went out of business because his designs were serious attempts at building extremely good two-channel speakers, i.e., time-coherence, which requires first-order crossovers and sealed-box woofer loading, the latter requiring gigantic, room-unfriendly boxes.", is entirely inaccurate. If we're fortunate enough that John Dunlavy is still with us, one should ask him as to why the company is no longer in business.

To Dave, The SC-IVA is an excellent choice for the main L/R, however I would be a bit hesitant to pair them with an SC-I center channel speaker. As I said, I have the Alethas which use the same drivers as the SC-IVA. Several years ago, I had a conversation with John Dunlavy about the SC-I for the center channel. He recommended, the SM-I rather than the SC-I as the SM-I uses the same tweeter and mid-range drivers as the Alethas, and in your case the SC-IVA. His reasoning for this was that movies often contain sounds that move across the screen. For example, consider the noise from a car traveling left to right across the screen. The sound of the car would appear first in the left speaker, then the center, and then the right. If the voicing of the center was different than the L/R, your would hear a difference in the sound as it moved from one speaker to the other. This is why many home theater architects recommend, and many mixing studios employ, identical speakers all around. It's less critical in the rear surround channels.

I wouldn't skimp on the center channel speaker. I don't know the actual percentages, but the majority of sound in movie soundtracks, including almost all dialog, comes from the center channel.

While I have never listened to the Snell C/V, I believe the SC-IVA would be a significant upgrade. My only caution would be how well the SC-I would "mate" with the SC-IVA.