Harshness in tweeters: the price of transparency?


Hi,

I can't help notice a correlation between ultimate tweeter transparency and having to put up with harshness at loud volume levels. It can be very transparent and smooth to an appreciable volume, bit exceed that and it will go harsh if you apply the materials necessary for max transparency in those drivers.

I owned titanium dome tweeters in Avalon Eclipse speakers that ultimately caused me a case of a decade-long bout with tinnitus from the titanium dome tweeters, even when using a smooth Music Reference RM-9 tube amp.

I then owned a pair of horns with lightweight metal compression driver diaphragms. Again, unbearable harshness at loud levels where the metal "breaks up".

I now own a pair of beryllium dome tweeeters in speakers that again are volume limited before that metallic glare and harshness comes in. When I had silk domes none of that happened to me, but the details and transparency are markedly down for those drivers at all volumes.

The most transparent drivers I heard were the best tweeter horns but at the cost of harshness. They exceeded electrostatics for dynamics and transparency and detail, but at that cost. Electrostatics seem to me to be the best compromise in midrange on up detail and smoothness but with a real decline in dynamics.

Maybe diamond is the answer with its extreme rigidity and hardness. But I'm not rich enough for that yet, and probably never will be.

What's the scoop on the best tweeters out there for all of what I'm asking for here, but at a reasonable price? One possibility that intrigues me is the ceramic tweeter, but again, I don't know and those are not cheap either.

I want to play horns and cymbals loud and clear, without that bite in my ear. Soft domes aren't enough for me, at least not the ones I've heard after hearing horns and beryllium.
ktstrain
I noticed the speaker specs I copied into my post above were incorrect. These are yours, yes?

Micro Utopia Be 2-driver, 2-way, ported-box speaker
Drivers: 1" pure-beryllium inverted-dome tweeter, 6.5" W-cone woofer
Frequency response: 50Hz–40kHz, +/-3dB
Sensitivity: 89dB/2.83V/m
Impedance: 8ohm nominal, 5ohm minimum
Crossover frequency: 2.5kHz, 24dB/octave
Maximum power handling: 100W (musical program)
Dimensions: 16.7" x 9.8" x 15" (HxWxD)
Weight: 38.5 lbs
Price: $6000/pair

5 ohms minimum impedance, as you said.

The Stereophile measurement specs I listed were for the Diva Utopia Be, which is a different model from yours.

Just wanted to correct the error.
Seems to me like Kurt is a candidate for some Selah line arrays with lots of ribbon tweeters. No affiliation. In fact, I've never even heard them but I know they'll handle SPL's and dynamics beyond his imagination. If you want concert bass with that, ask about the Incredarrays or custom built.
It's a harsh ringing tone of dome break-up sound, not hard clipping hash or soft clipping hash.

Like I said light rigid materials all tend to ring like a bell.
Kana813, you got a few things wrong; since I retired the CJ amp there's no longer need to invert the polarity at my speakers (proper polarity confirmed with a test LP and CD, since it can vary with equipment). Oh, you've got to learn to play guitar and don't just "play" the trumpet put perform with several symphonies, wind ensembles and a funk/rock/soul band.

I thought Kana813 and I were having an offline discussion, but if he's going to follow me around, I'll share his method. First you pull your main speakers way out into the where nothing below the mids can get out. Next, realizing that you're massively short of bass, buy a couple of huge MoFo subwoofers and push them right into the corners. Next, throw up some bass traps in hopes of controlling the huge nodes created by your super expensive, bi-amped system. Finally, just when all seems hopeless, add in a mega-bucks processor to attenuate the bass peaks by sucking off power and adding digital hash, extra ICs and all the attendant compromises into the system. Cap it all off by messuring EQ at the seating position and declare rig "perfect" because the EQ is now flat. Ignore IMD because you don't know how to measure it and if anything is hard to measure, then it must not be important. ;-)

Did I get it right?

Obviously, YMMV and different strokes for different folks applies.

Dave