A Perennial Debate For Which I Seek Help

Douglas_schroeder, poor logic in your analogy.

My logic: Speaker: wires/connection internal...wires/connection external. The common denominator in the analogy is the wires/connection.

Your logic attributed to me: Car: engine...tires. No commom demoinator between the two as in my logic above.

You better practice your logical analysis a bit before you write the GRE exams.

I am glad this point has been brought up. After years of equipment swapping and cable testing I have come to the conclusion that most ‘audiophile’ cables are overpriced and superfluous.

For example, Totem’s design team utilizes14-gauge multi strand linearized oxygen-free, silver plated copper wire with thick Teflon dielectric shielding in all their designs—sound expensive, right? They build and test their speakers around this wire. They even use it in their speaker leads (which reinforces the fact that the posters speakers are poorly built). The best part is they sell it as ‘Tress’ for $5 a foot.

I wouldn't doubt that behind the pretentious 'jewelry' on most expensive cable is simple copper wire.

I also have a question for the Audiogon community. Why do we use connectors? Other than convenience and looks, what value does it add sonically? If the signal is only as good as its source, then why do we add one more conductive material in the signal path [that is different from the original]? It cannot make the sound ‘better’ because the signal it receives is what it is (the wire). I started thinking about this seriously after I read Lavardin recommends using bare wire for connectivity.

Baroque lover, like you I am very sceptical about a lot of cable pricing in terms of value for money. I can understand why some cables might cost more. They may be hand made in small batches. Ot they may use exotic/expensive materials. However, for most cables this is not the case. Any audio retailer will tell you that cables are high margin items. That's why the big box stores push them so much, to add some profit to the low margin TV or CD player they are selling.

As to the value of the cable in improving the system. I think a distinction has to be made between a cable making a "difference" and a cable producing an "improvement". A difference is not necessarily an improvement. I think many cables produce differences, but not always improvements. Certainly, many people will swear up and down that a certain cable imnproved their system. I think this can be true. A cable can compensate and mate with what it is attached to in the same way that a component can mate well, or not so well, with another component. But I would expect cable improvements to be more subtle since there are fewer variables to work with when changing a cable as opposed to an entire component.

And if you do a good job inside like Totem, there is little to compensate for with an extenal cable, which was the point I was suggesting in my original comment. In this circumstance, cable changes are more likely to produce "differences", but not "improvements". Or if it is an "improvement", it is an improvement in terms of the person's personal taste, and not in an absolute sense.

I am always surprised that one of my favourite manufacturers, who make some extrememly expensive stuff, don't seem to give much of a rat's tail about cables. All they recommend is a good quality 4 mm multi stranded copper cable. They don't seem to have any regard for all of the exotic material and construction (and marketing) that's behind a lot of expensive cables.

I'm not wealthy enough to experiment with a lot of cable changes anyways. So if my thought are wrong, I remain happy in my ignorance. I feel no need to change anything.

As for connectors, they seem to be a necessary evil, like cables, unless you have all of your components hard wired together. I don't think bare wires by themselves produce a strong enough conenction.

Nycwine1 -- to return to your question, yes -- if the terminations are iffy, it will affect the sound.
SO, do solder solidly those driver terminations. If you wish to change the internal wire, try single core, thicker for the woofer than the tweet; do not forget to twist the new internal wire!
On the bright side, better (i.e. low tolerance) components on the xover do make a difference of course.

I talked to Richard Vandrsteen about this wire issue. He uses specific wire for specific applications. A particular wire to connect the crossover to the tweeter as an example has different properties than the wire from the crossover to the midrange, because of the different frequencies handled, and the different power requirements, etc. On another thought, I built my power cables. I first used the best quality plugs and cables I could get from a professional electrical supply house...they sounded very good. I then changed the plugs to audio grade plugs from a high end audio vendor...a very great upgrade. I then put the plugs on bulk wire from the same hi end vendor. The results were that the plugs made the biggest difference, but that the changeout of the wire produced a much less but still significant improvement.