Jazz for aficionados

Rok, on the off chance that you are actually being serious (which I still cannot really believe) - Haven't you ever heard of someone being called "ahead of his time?" Pick any art form you wish, and a very large percentage of the truly greats in that form were not "popular" during their time. Their art survived anyway because it was great art. Music history is full of such composers - to name just one, the symphonies of Gustav Mahler are now very often played, but during his lifetime, almost not at all. Some of them he never heard himself, except at his piano when writing them. There are many writers (James Joyce, to name one in English) and visual artists one can say the same of - folks who barely scraped by in relative obscurity during their lifetimes, but are now considered one of the all time greats. No one goes into the arts to make money - this would be an idiotic goal. In fact, huge numbers of very talented students majoring in the arts even at the very best schools end up dropping out (if not dropping out of school, at least abandoning it as a career goal), because they decided they didn't want to work as hard as is necessary, since it was not going to bring them the income level they wanted, even if they attained the very highest level in their art.

I look forward to your question on abstract art.

Mahler wrote Classical Symphonic music.
People didn't like his music
Mahler and his music are not POPULAR
Mahler is not great
Mahler dies
New people begin to play and listen to his music
New people like his music
New Orchestras play and record his music
Now Mahler's music is very POPULAR
Mahler is now recognized as a great composer.

I don't see a problem

Cheers

From my book.

" I would suggest that instrumental music is the most abstract art yet conceived by humankind. some might quibble with me; but in this I know I'm right."

He goes on to say; "Drawings or paintings, representational or not, are physical objects and exist in at least two dimensions. You can see and touch them."

"Poetry and literature, while not concrete objects, are written in a language that a person would understand. Therefore we fully understand what the artist is trying to say."

"But what is instrumental music? It is music that has no words, no literary information beyond its title, to explain why it exists, and why it sounds the way it does. It's neither physically dimensional nor concrete......Music has to be played, and when instrumental music is played, it exists only in the ether as concussion waves assaulting our eardrums."

"Color me a literalist, but as far as i'm concerned, that's about as abstract an art as I can Imagine."

NOW:

AS I was reading this, the local FM station was playing 'Don't cry for me Argentina' Instrumental version. My questions are:

would a instrumental version of a song originaly written with words, be abstract? Would it be abstract, if the person had never heard the words before?

Horace Silver wrote many instrumental Jazz songs. They would be abstract. Dee Dee Bridgewater did a CD of his music, put to words. Her words. Is her CD abstract? Does it change Silver's music from being abstract?

Why are sound waves assaulting the ear drums more abstract than photons of light assaulting our eyes? Speaking of abstract paintings here.

Thanks for your brilliant insights.

You guys up to speed on "triads"?

Cheers

Enough already! It seems that Acman3 is the only person still on the music, as opposed to factors surrounding the music that none of us know for sure. Let's get back on the track that will lead to new discoveries of jazz. But before we leave, I think we should all agree to broaden the definition, or not. In order to appease Rok, I've stayed within the narrow definition of the word, while my definition is quite broad. What ever the mutual definition is, is fine with me.

Enjoy the music.

0-10:

I certainly do not wish to limit the discussion. I am ready and willing to broaden my horizons. I will also tone down my negativity concerning modern and world Jazz. Can't learn anything with a closed mind. Thanks for broaching this subject. I, for one, do tend to go off on tangents.

Cheers