I’m behind a good deal in the discussion(s) and links recently posted here.
Frogman, As usual great comments. Well articulated. I don’t have the expertise but your MJ vs Bily Ocean comparison of "objective" merit strikes me as correct. The only point I’d make is the professional excellence demonstrated in the MJ video gets trumped by my indifference (lack of response) on an emotional level. Not a luxury someone in the biz (a producer, engineer, arranger, session musician etc.) can indulge, of course. Probably just stating the obvious. BUT I also wonder (beyond technical considerations and purely subjective responses) at what point do artistic valuations come into play? Is this stuff worthwhile? Will it be relevant 50, 100 years from now? Does it have roots in a formal artistic tradition? (not wording this last one quite right). I’m sure this isn’t a complete list. So I dismiss MJ and Caribou Queen because, based on my aesthetic, they don’t make the grade. Is that just another purely subjective response? OR if I’m informed and have "good taste" (whatever that is) does my judgement have some objective standing and carry some real weight?!.
Not sure a click track is the cause of everything you heard in the BLS "Spiral" track BUT it might be symptomatic. If you get a chance, give a listen to Black Light Syndrome (the earlier recording by this trio). Can’t remember where I read about it (liner notes? All Music Guide? Amazon reviews??) but this was supposedly more improvisational than Situation Dangerous (where Spiral is from). Situation Dangerous being a recording of actual compositions. If my memory is accurate, your comments about Spiral are certainly consistent with this. While I didn't pick up on it, I’m impressed you detected what might be called "studied-ness" in the performance.
Stevens is reportedly a fan of flamenco. You can certainly hear flamenco in Spiral. Haven’t heard it but he has an album called, "Flamenco A-GoGo". That’s one I’d definitely like to hear.
No problem about not liking the Ginger Baker Trio performance, though I am surprised. From what I’ve seen of that performance, I thought Baker’s playing very restrained and maybe intentionally so to give more room to Haden and Frisell. You know of course Baker (and Jack Bruce) started out as jazz musicians and were supposedly well regarded as such. I’m not expert (yet again) on jazz drummers but some folk do have a more favorable view of Baker in that role! But again, no problem. Mainly posted those links to showcase Frisell’s playing.
Haven’t gotten to all your links yet. I do appreciate your thoughtful and in-depth remark on mine.
Frogman, As usual great comments. Well articulated. I don’t have the expertise but your MJ vs Bily Ocean comparison of "objective" merit strikes me as correct. The only point I’d make is the professional excellence demonstrated in the MJ video gets trumped by my indifference (lack of response) on an emotional level. Not a luxury someone in the biz (a producer, engineer, arranger, session musician etc.) can indulge, of course. Probably just stating the obvious. BUT I also wonder (beyond technical considerations and purely subjective responses) at what point do artistic valuations come into play? Is this stuff worthwhile? Will it be relevant 50, 100 years from now? Does it have roots in a formal artistic tradition? (not wording this last one quite right). I’m sure this isn’t a complete list. So I dismiss MJ and Caribou Queen because, based on my aesthetic, they don’t make the grade. Is that just another purely subjective response? OR if I’m informed and have "good taste" (whatever that is) does my judgement have some objective standing and carry some real weight?!.
Not sure a click track is the cause of everything you heard in the BLS "Spiral" track BUT it might be symptomatic. If you get a chance, give a listen to Black Light Syndrome (the earlier recording by this trio). Can’t remember where I read about it (liner notes? All Music Guide? Amazon reviews??) but this was supposedly more improvisational than Situation Dangerous (where Spiral is from). Situation Dangerous being a recording of actual compositions. If my memory is accurate, your comments about Spiral are certainly consistent with this. While I didn't pick up on it, I’m impressed you detected what might be called "studied-ness" in the performance.
Stevens is reportedly a fan of flamenco. You can certainly hear flamenco in Spiral. Haven’t heard it but he has an album called, "Flamenco A-GoGo". That’s one I’d definitely like to hear.
No problem about not liking the Ginger Baker Trio performance, though I am surprised. From what I’ve seen of that performance, I thought Baker’s playing very restrained and maybe intentionally so to give more room to Haden and Frisell. You know of course Baker (and Jack Bruce) started out as jazz musicians and were supposedly well regarded as such. I’m not expert (yet again) on jazz drummers but some folk do have a more favorable view of Baker in that role! But again, no problem. Mainly posted those links to showcase Frisell’s playing.
Haven’t gotten to all your links yet. I do appreciate your thoughtful and in-depth remark on mine.